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Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

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Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#191
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my former co-workers at IBM went to a bootcamp in SF. She is pretty smart. Though, I feel that bootcamps are kinda scams. Not like colleges though.

I went to college and have many coworkers who went to boot camps, and we’re paid the same! Look on LinkedIn for people who work at the companies you want to work at, and also went to bootcamps, to build a shortlist. There are several boot camps today, in every major urban area, that carry major street cred in the local tech communities.

Do you know specific good ones?

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#192
post #83

First off, your HN submission history is really weird, dude. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=snakedoctor ) If you get a job in customer support at Amazon there is literally no way to get a 'promotion' to a dev role. It's different parts of the org, and you're tarnished with being a CS person. Why? Because it's signaling - people who can do eng roles at Amazon don't take CS roles so they don't bother minin…

Thanks, dude. Yeah I was hesitant if I should've accepted the CS offer. I was planning to transfer internally to a SecEng/Analyst/SDE 1 role. It might've been possible. I tried applying internally, but my applications would just turn in to no longer considered after a while. ytcracker works at Amazon.

I sent you an email to take you up on your mock interview offer.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#193

Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…

Not to be argumentative. But yes, I did attend college. Send me a email, and I'll send you an email from my college email address (Hasn't been deactivited yet). I can send you my college transcript if that helps.. Well, I did get hired by IBM as a programmer so... I've contributed to a GNU open source project.. So I feel that I am qualifed for a entry level developer/SecEng/Security Analyst role. I went above my boss…

It's interesting how focused you are on proving yourself right (I'll send you a college email etc).

And that seems to be the case with going over your bosses head ("I went above my bosses head because they did not remedy the issue, and weren't going to.")

Being right is great! But having a job is also great. Perhaps focus less on proving yourself right, and more on getting along with people?

Edit: reading further in the thread it sounds like you went over your bosses head 2 weeks into a job? That's really not a great idea.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#194
If this is essay is a representative sample of how you express yourself in general, then one recommendation is to improve your communication ability/style [1]. Stream-of-conscious may work in online chatrooms, but not in professional settings. In any team-oriented setting, clear and organized communication is non-negotiable. Your writing here signals intelligent, but manic, frantic, and maybe not a great communicator.

It sounds like you're a good technical writer when you need to be, based on your anecdote about writing up the problem with Amazon's anti-fraud system. But you need to be a good communicator in general, not just specifically to technical writing. However, if my overall impression here is inaccurate then feel free to ignore.

For example, up until the following line you were at least understandable, but this line was unclear:

>"Got referrals etc. dropped out my freshmen year at a top 40 college. Was on the cyber security team etc. too expensive so I had to dropout."

Are you saying you were on the cyber security team at your university, but it was too expensive so you had to drop out? If so, just say that in a sentence: "I was on the cyber security team at my top 40 university, but it was too expensive so I had to drop out." (also, did you apply for student loans? Most top 40 universities can put together a package of grants and loans to keep the folks they admitted). And referrals from who for what?

Also this:

>"Also was concerned about support reps being able to access any customer's data simply by pressing 'bypass' on the security question promt page. I couldn't transfer internally until a year later as well. Would ping your manager each time you apply as well. Have to delete your emails constantly due to only having 1gb email space. Assessment was similar to the one I took for CIA. Cognitive based assessment."

There are multiple concepts jumbled together here in a confusing stream of conscious. Separate each out into a sentence, simplify it as much as possible, and order the sentences according to some logical progression (chronological, causal, etc).

Busy people you're asking to employ you don't have the mental bandwidth to decipher your writing and communications, they're 150% preoccupied with more important things (to them). Make it as easy as possible for them to understand you, evaluate your request and the value in it to them, and say yes. "Don't Make Me Think" [2].

Any time you want something of value from someone, step outside of yourself, put yourself in their shoes, and think through what they need or want but don't have in their current position. Try to see the world completely from their PoV, imagine you are them. Figure out what they need, what is of most value to them right now, how to get it for them, and offer it in return for what you need. Get your clever hacker mind good at solving that kind of problem, and it will take you far.

[1]:https://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2007/06/the... [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Make_Me_Think

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#195
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customer support for AWS can convert into other roles pretty easily, just apply for internal transfers for adjacent roles or move into devops etc at another company. But if you have programming skills, I agree you're far off going directly for dev roles instead.

For amazon, the move it not to apply formally through the internal jobs site. Clicking apply will notify your manager instantly. So the accepted practice is to connect directly with the HM for a chat/pre-interview and once they say they are inclined (barring unexpected info), click apply. This is fairly common and expected.

Yeah it pings your manager whenever you apply internally. That is an interesting work around. You can see HM/Sourcer/Recruiter for any roles internally. Then just get their contact information via Phone tool.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#196

I'm a software engineer that runs a technical recruiting company. I worked at Microsoft and Netflix for a decade. Email me at robert at facet dot net. I will interview you and tell you why you're not getting hired.

Do you do internationally and/or trading firms?

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#197
post #48

Have you tried asking any of the jobs that rejected you're getting rejected? Honestly, just a guess, you're probably giving off bad interpersonal vibes/people don't really like talking to you. Half of interviewing is just being very personable/being able to talk comfortably with other people. Generally in this space (this space meaning those interested in tech/startups/etc) sometimes people struggle in this area but…

I'm not the asker, but if I was in the same boat, would it be reasonable to instead apply directly to non-entry level jobs?

get on linkedin. look for people in your target company who say they are hiring. Send them a message.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#198
post #160
post #42

Brutally candid advice? You sound like a creep. Am I reading it right here, you spoofed your number to talk to executives? In the best case, they'll assume you're a pen-tester; but more likely, you're blacklisted from those companies now. I wish there was, like, short and simple advice that I could give you to not be a creep. I just tried to google that, and I'm not finding a good clear resource. Like most social ski…

Spoofing your number does seem shady. However, saying someone is a creep is not very helpful. There is a big difference between how one is perceived and what a person -is-. The most helpful advice I've seen here is: get direct feedback from a candid friend. This HN feedback offers a range of opinions, but -please- don't dwell on it. Find a way to have people you know help you ... practice interviews, talking out loud…

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I wish that I'd said "this behavior sounds creepy / learn to avoid creepy behavior."

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#199

Your writing is not strong, i can tell you did not attend college. Written communication is important in tech. Your applying to those companies with 0 experience or college degree is unrealistic. The entry level is extremely competitive and you have nothing to make you interesting to hire. They get thousands of applications for those jobs. You are still young, plenty of time to learn, but I recommend taking a step ba…

> Your writing is not strong, I don't know. I think he has pretty decent writing. Kinda reminds me of William Gibson. It may be stylistically unusual, but it's definitely better than the median SWE. At least in terms of clearly conveying his thoughts.

exactly... his writing is fine.

Re: Ask HN: How can a unhireable person get a job?

#200
post #2

You leave out a lot about yourself that would make you unhireable. From what you've written it sounds like you could form a decent resume for an entry level position. The biggest red flag I see is that it doesn't sound like you completed anything and you don't have any follow through / sticktuitiveness. Life happens and reasons happen but you didn't complete college, you complain about your entry level position at am…

Yeah, I think hiring managers think that I'm a quitter. I definitely think that I was whining too much about the Amazon role. Beggers can't be choosers. However, the no health insurance thing rubbed me the wrong way. I felt like it was a dead end job. I wish that I would've stayed with it though. I probably would've been promoted by now. I need to stay with a job and rack up some years of experience for sure. Like I…

"Not a good fit" is about social skills, it has nothing to do with qualifications.

And no one gets promoted in the first year.

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