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Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

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Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#191

Post by RussianCow »

als0 wrote: post #151
fiftyfifty wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think several of your categories nailed what the vast majority of car owners are looking for: an transportation appliance. This is where I think EVs will eventually dominate the market, the only thing you will have to worry about is plugging it in. The simplicity of the electric drive train will make them even more reliable (and efficient) than the best gas vehicles today. No more oil changes. No more random fluid…

> No more mornings where you are late for work because your car wouldn't start That sounds very optimistic. Don't forget that these new cars are increasingly powered by software!

That seems to equally be the case for both ICE and electric vehicles, so I don't think you're worse off going electric if that's your concern.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#192

Post by decafninja »

allears wrote: post #51

Just like real estate is "location, location, location," the real inflection point of EV adoption will be "price, price, price." As long as they're priced in the luxury range, sales will be restricted. As soon as you can buy a decent new or used EV for $10-15,000, or less, you will see mass adoption. And by "decent," I don't mean golf cart style, I mean a useful, roomy, sedan or hatchback with good range that will ap…

I feel one of Tesla's greatest "innovations" is their aesthetic design.

Prior to the Model 3, nearly all EVs were weird looking "futuristic" (usually in a bad tacky way) dwarf mutant hatchbacks that looked rather cheap - like a ICE car that cost half its MSRP.

The Model 3 introduced a (relatively) affordable EV that actually looks "normal", even desirable and premium.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#193

Post by fomine3 »

bdamm wrote: post #124
petercooper wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All EVs have fast enough acceleration (some dangerously so.) So competition there is not going to continue. I'm less sure about that. I think it will remain a distinctive feature that people will actively choose for or against, at least. The new Mini EV from BMW (and which is replacing the i3 as BMW's 'flagship' EV) has only 0-60 in 7s which is not very interesting at all. But they're not aiming at the performance cr…

Your point is true, except that you will go electric, whether you do it for dopamine hit or not. The technology is strongly pointing to the complete and utter obsolescence of gasoline in a matter of only a few more years. Arguably gasoline is already obsolete and riding the very long tail of awareness of transition. Gasoline is still dominating in the cheapest sectors (of American auto sales, not true in China), but…

Do you seriously think is 0-60 matter for average buyer? Charging equipment at home should be the primary concern that should be solved.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#194

Post by monkmartinez »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #159
lowbloodsugar wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: #3 - handle what? Changing the oil? Replacing the clutch. Dealing with the camshaft gears shredding and destroying engine? Fixing any part of the gear box? Of the automatic gearbox? My belt tensioner isn't. The clutch on my ac is broken. My powersteering hydraulic line came loose and sprayed all over the road. My power steering pump needs replacing (a month after the fluid got dumped). Piston ring blown. Cylinder…

> So looking forward not to have to take the car to any kind of mechanic at all except for brakes and wiper fluid. You won't even need to go to a mechanic for brakes. Regen breaking means your brake pads are rarely actually used and will probably last a million miles. AFAIK, the only maintenance item you'll likely be taking an EV to is tires.

This just isn't factual. Every part of car will eventually wear out. Go spend some time on the Tesla forums and you'll see they are not even close to maintenance free.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#195

Post by philg_jr »

decafninja wrote: post #165
DennisP wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but my point was, the range/recharging situation is a differentiator from other electrics for now, and reasonably practical, while acceleration far exceeds most gasoline cars in its price range. From a quick google, the fastest BMW 3-series is the 330i, at 5.3 seconds 0-60. The M240i xDrive does 4.2 seconds. For a few thousand more, the Model 3 Performance does 3.1. Tesla's instant response is another fun advanta…

Completely agree with that too. Not to nitpick, but the fastest non-M 3 series is the M340, which has been tested to 3.8s 0-60 and can probably be leased for about the same as a Model 3 Performance. Disclaimer: it's my current daily driver. The M3 is the more interesting comparison, and Elon specifically had the older one in his crosshairs vs. the Model 3 Performance trim. Based on various Youtube videos, the pre 202…

Be prepared to be impressed. I got myself into a '21 Model 3 LR and the acceleration puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. And this is from someone with a very heavily modded 4-cyl turbo car with a medium frame turbo and 20psi. 340 ft-lb is nothing to scoff at when it's on tap instantaneously. I really want to take a Model 3P for a test drive, I wish I knew someone.

And the Model 3 has been around for 4? years now? The fit and finish I'm guessing has improved greatly, but I really have no idea. I ordered and picked up mine without ever test driving one. I guess I put a lot of faith in it, but I love it. No regrets. Bring on the electrification of all vehicles. Can't wait for an electric pickup truck.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#196

Post by fomine3 »

pmorici wrote: post #55
sokoloff wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supercar brands have never been about being price-competitive (in some cases, they are even Veblen Goods). Very few people cross-shop Ferraris and Hondas. I look forward to seeing the new Tesla's Nürburgring-Nordschleife time. The progress that performance EVs are making is impressive.

No doubt but they derive much of their prestige from their performance reputation which is why you see them marketing the Taycan’s 0-60 repeatability. As things progress the marketing department will increasingly struggle to come up with reasons why the electric incarnation of the brand lives up to its historical position as a prestigious good.

Maybe true for Ferrari, but Porsche's reputations isn't come from just 0-60.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#197

Post by fomine3 »

auiya wrote: post #43

I see the comparison you're trying to make with the recent LG news, but here's why I think it's not fair to compare smart phones and cars in terms of commoditization. Smart phones in terms of styling are all basically a black glass slab at this point, styling barely comes into play. And it's not that phone manufacturers haven't tried, it's that people don't value smart phone styling as much. With cars on the other ha…

Exceptionally worked styling: the Apple logo

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#198

Post by bradlys »

philg_jr wrote: post #195
decafninja wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree with that too. Not to nitpick, but the fastest non-M 3 series is the M340, which has been tested to 3.8s 0-60 and can probably be leased for about the same as a Model 3 Performance. Disclaimer: it's my current daily driver. The M3 is the more interesting comparison, and Elon specifically had the older one in his crosshairs vs. the Model 3 Performance trim. Based on various Youtube videos, the pre 202…

Be prepared to be impressed. I got myself into a '21 Model 3 LR and the acceleration puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. And this is from someone with a very heavily modded 4-cyl turbo car with a medium frame turbo and 20psi. 340 ft-lb is nothing to scoff at when it's on tap instantaneously. I really want to take a Model 3P for a test drive, I wish I knew someone. And the Model 3 has been around for 4? yea…

You can just go to a Tesla store and drive one. I did. Wasn’t even accompanied on the drive (thank god - the dude would’ve barfed). Drove it up to skyline and back from Palo Alto. I took out the performance too.

Unlike you, I wasn’t impressed. Acceleration was good but other than that, it doesn’t feel much better than any other cheap car. Definitely worse than a BMW. (I own a BMW and can compare) The body roll is significant. Seats are horrible. (Literally couldn’t stay in seat, no bolstering and very slippery vinyl) Brakes were about the only thing that felt comparable but had this eery feeling that they were going to fade at any moment without any notice. So, I wasn’t really confident in going full send. Some people probably know what I mean...

If all you care about is straight line acceleration then Tesla could be quite good. For me, I like curves more and Tesla has to come out with a specific sport car variant for it to compete on that front.

Oh and I’m used to sound and wind in my hair because I drive convertibles. So, there’s that too. I don’t expect anything like that anytime soon. Too niche for American market.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#199

Post by protastus »

jagger27 wrote: post #85

The differentiator for me is battery weight. Mazda can't make an electric MX-5 Miata with current battery density as it would cease to be a Miata. One of the core improvements (in my opinion) between the 3rd and 4th generation Miatas is the diet it went on, and that was only 110 lbs in the 2.0l model. The Japan-only 1.5l lost over 300 lbs over the 3rd gen. Consider the Lotus Elise and the original Tesla Roadster. The…

Yes. Cars have steadily gotten heavier and the EV conversion is making this worse.

Are most drivers aware though, or only racing enthusiasts? I think on a daily driver car, the weight increase has been masked since most people drive on smooth paved roads where there's no loss of traction (especially with ABS brakes and some form of traction control being standard). ICEs have improved power and efficiency to compensate.

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