Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

news.ycombinator.com

191–200 of 496 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

#191

I wish I could leave. The tech industry nowadays is no longer about solving real-world problems and making the world a better place, instead it's all about screwing the end user in every single way possible, whether it's ads, stalking and privacy violations, spam ("marketing" as they call it) or just plain fraud where the company is happy to take the money but can't make it right if things don't go to plan and the cu…

This describes a lot of software. No doubt. It's depressing and disturbing. But not any of the systems I've worked on over 10 years. You may not get the absolute top salaries working on more meaningful projects, but there's plenty of them. Here are some examples that I worked on. To a fault, most of these places over-focused on the business and under-focused on exceptional engineering. Nonetheless, there's a lot of m…

In most all the systems I have worked on its more about screwing the user from a technical perspective than a deliberate business action, though there have been some of those too.

Either way it all comes down to some combination of mental laziness and no ethics. There is no ethical code, that I am aware of, for writing software.

Here are my experiences as a web developer:

* Frustration at the general technical incompetence of my industry: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22821318

* Many software developers need things to be easy, unprofessionally so: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22859326

* JavaScript developers can't interface to the browser: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22740897

* People (only software developers on security) who self-admittedly have no education, no experience, no credibility, and no practice of the art find themselves subject matter experts and cannot understand why an actual expert would disagree with their hastily formed opinion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22868620

* Hiring software developers is still somehow an arcane mystery few people can objectively figure out.

Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

#194

I haven't left myself yet, but at almost-55 I know a fair number who have. Here's what I know of what their answers would be. The first simply had another passion - travel. Work was just a way to pay for that. Eventually went to work for an agency, been there a long time and AFAICT couldn't be happier (despite being less well off materially). I've known a couple of others who fit this pattern. One left the industry t…

You know, people worry about age discrimination a lot because there aren't a ton of older programmers around. But when the discussion comes up, people don't talk much about the reasons you describe. Sure, bad programmers age out because they were never great at programming in the first place. But I would assume the HN crowd falls in the top half of competence because there are so many people here who seem smarter abo…

> But when the discussion comes up, people don't talk much about the reasons you describe.

Which people you're talking about? The survivors who are still working in the field? Or those who had heart attacks at their desks at 50?

Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

#195
My dissatisfaction, aside from the usual foolishness one has come to expect from one's employers like a weekly viewing of Brazil, stemmed from this kind of engineering cruft that has seeped into a very small shop. The cruft looked like this kind of enormous parasite that had battened onto programming, slowing it down, draining it. I don't doubt that very large projects with tons of developers and enormous LOC counts, with a few million users need that kind of thing, but it does not seem to scale down very well. What might have been a symbiotic relationship with a larger host organism became like a lamprey fastened to a guppy. Now artificial deadlines had their own artificial deadlines inside them, ad infinitum.

Despite being an incredibly small shop, we "leaned in" to the Agile thing in a way that was completely foolish. Scale was irrelevant, we had some services that were hit an average of seven times a day, sometimes spiking to ten. You will have to trust me when I say that they would never go viral. Ever. We did not have teams of programmers working on one product, we had a few programmers constantly bouncing from one little project to another as management demanded. This "pivoting," (and I guess you have to be Agile to pivot so often) resembled nothing more than Brownian motion from the ten thousand foot view. Management would shift in and out, old work was looked at with "why did we build that?" while never asking if the hotness du jour was similarly unnecessary. Meanwhile, backbone processes were neglected and began to crumble.

Ah, but the churn, that was huge. We kept switching from one platform for engineering issues we didn't have before to another platform. We had this, now we are going to Trello. Then it turns out that our parent organization was going to switch to something else entirely in six months, but let's take a little detour from Trello to this other platform just for fun before we go to what the parent organization will mandate. This was most likely to be just another bullet point on the old resume for the lead, to say that he had done it, on his way out the door to somewhere else; if I had to guess, he had figured out what ecosystem his target job was using and picked some items out of that for us to purely temporarily migrate to.

People would buy wholesale into services that simply were not going to last. I would smell the stench of impending death upon them but no. And then later, into the Google Graveyard or the like it would go. So much jabbering about frontend frameworks when almost no Javascript was required, only to have to then keep those frameworks current.

The churn was there in other ways. I had never used a particular backend framework before, in fact had little experience with them. I was forthright about this, so I bought some relevant books, set up a test machine to dabble with, and was ready to go with a tiny little "get my feet wet" project that would still have some minor value. The other "contributor" had agreed to all of this, and when I was set up and ready to learn, somehow everything pivoted to Django. No "buy-in," as the lingo I had to learn goes, from me. Time, effort, money: wasted. Update update, migrate migrate.

I remind people often that nomads never left great architecture behind. If you are constantly migrating, you are not building anything to last.

I switched to something tech-adjacent. I still program. I still use technology to solve problems. Now, when I program to solve a problem, it stays solved. I do not have endless meetings fractally interspersed into my schedule like some kind of stuttering hardware interrupt all to talk about solving a problem.

I follow Hacker News because I am interested in some trends, pet projects, and the like. On a purely cruel level, watching people simply tear into one another again and again over what looks like religious differences (Agile in particular is a fantastic example, makes top-posting vs. bottom-posting thing look tame) reminds me of why I left.

Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

#197

I left when project managers tried to Taylorize programming.

Hear, hear. I find that process like Agile is exhausting, but necessary work, when you cannot trust your workers. I miss working at a small shop where we were fully trusted to deliver. I find I am able to do very well under Agile, but it certainly makes me feel dishonest that such a measurable portion of my day is spent measuring my performance. It feels like a fractal waste of time. But I completely understand why i…

I can't figure out how I ended up completing an advanced degree (one that that takes a lot of study to complete), and have decades of experience in a profession that supposedly is hard to find people for, yet still find myself putting up with a bi-weekly "end of sprint" why-didn't-you-finish-your-sprint-commitments berating from somebody with less education and less experience than me. I feel like saying that I've wasted my life would be an understatement.

Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

#198
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This describes a lot of software. No doubt. It's depressing and disturbing. But not any of the systems I've worked on over 10 years. You may not get the absolute top salaries working on more meaningful projects, but there's plenty of them. Here are some examples that I worked on. To a fault, most of these places over-focused on the business and under-focused on exceptional engineering. Nonetheless, there's a lot of m…

So this is a philosophical argument, but lots of those industries indirectly screw their customers. Optometrists who sell frames generally sell brands from companies like Luxottica who have made eyewear really expensive. The entire insurance industry is one of the major reasons healthcare is expensive and ruins the experience people have with patient care. All of this various from country to country of course. I coul…

By this logic, every company screws over everyone and business is bad overall.

Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

#199
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate to your point of view, which is why I don't work for "the tech industry", but instead have my own SaaS. This lets me stay close to tech (I love programming in Clojure and ClojureScript!), do what I enjoy, and not have my soul sucked out by evilness and stupidity of today's adtech world. I have a product which solves a real problem and I'm getting paid by customers who appreciate that their workflow is so…

How do you propose finding those real problems to solve? I know that every problem I encounter in my life (or work) has already been solved 100 times over.

Just find a pain point. One of my products sells just because people really don't like certain aspects of my biggest competitor. So I capitalize on that and make migration easy.

Re: Ask HN: Why did you leave the tech industry?

#200
post #128
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is anecdotal, but when I was younger and still figuring out what I wanted to do, I joined a 1 year course that was supposed to prepare people with HS diplomas and other people with practical jobs like electricians and such to study engineering in college. Surprisingly, the vast majority of the men in my class were electricians that had regretted their choice because it was such a dull job with a lot of menial la…

I wonder if they realize that’s most jobs? I always laugh whenever TechCrunch or someone runs a story about some hot shot university winning a programming competition because they implemented an algorithm the fastest or created yet another new app. When in the real world, most programming jobs are making changes to a really large code base trying your hardest not to break other things. Not nearly as glamorous.

"I won all these hackathons!"

"That's great, kid. Now figure out why this build works on everyone else's machine but not yours. And then once the build works why the test suite throws a series of errors, one at a time, each new one appearing as you fix the last, when everyone else tells you it's green (though at some point you'll figure out they're all passing flags to disable parts of it, but forgot they're doing that). Oh we have some other things for you to do that are actual programming but you can't do those until you fix that. Oh and when you're halfway done Fred over there's gonna tell you you need to pull master because he just updated all the dependencies. Oh hey what do you know about code signing and app store distribution?"

Post reply on HN