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Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

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Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#191

Post by trabant00 »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

First and most importantly: forget the internet and books. And words in general. Find people similar to yourself and observe what works and doesn't work for them.

But since we're already here, what I think worked for me (40y old and it's gotten better with age): be yourself. Yep, that old shit. But the why and how is more important. Being 100% sincere with yourself and others will free you of tedious interactions with people who enjoy things you don't. And when you exaggerate in the PhD direction (because trust me, you do) the sincerity will cause feedback loops that will get the interaction to an equilibrium much faster than if any or both parties are pretending.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#192

Post by cstrasen »

capkutay wrote: post #86
eight_ender wrote: post #38

Admitting I'm wrong or that I screwed up, and likewise praising others when they're correct or have ideas I agree with. You would not believe how much smoother everything at work is when you learn to recognize early the signs that you're holding on to a bad opinion, or that you're headed towards a fuckup, and just saying it out loud. The praising / agreeing thing is a bit more complex. I've noticed more recently that…

This might sound strange but I wish I learned how to be more assertive and less apologetic/yielding. When I was in a 50/50 debate/discussions, in many cases I leaned towards myself being wrong and the other being right automatically...and later would feel discontent with everyone when I turned out I was right and should have pushed harder. But I guess dont know how to be assertive without being offensive or overly br…

I have been in the same situation and I observed it happens more often when discussing with non-technical team members. What I think is happening here is that I forget how "business people" can have different knowledge and beliefs than I do. Assuming good intentions, it might be just lack of information on both sides that make us hold back and assume "they are probably on the right track". And IMHO that is good news because there are many possible paths to address this common issue.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#193

Post by austincheney »

I wish I had learned to call out frauds early on. There are those occasional few developers in the corporate world that are hired but can not write any code. They spend most of the day being social and generally delightful but contribute nothing to the work. They are frustrating in meetings when they inject uninformed opinions in order to justify their existence, to themselves mostly, as thought leaders.

I also wished I had learned to be assertive to sensitive people. In the military world honesty is king. If you hold on to sensitivity in conflict to honesty you absolutely will not advance. In the corporate world kindness is far more important, even if that means lying to people. This is sometimes understandable in purely social contexts, but not in product or engineering discussions. Bad ideas are bad ideas. I wish I learned to take the kid gloves off and simply be more honest about really bad decisions in the corporate world instead of being tacit or accepting. It’s hard when you really want to be a team player but some people’s number one priority is face-saving behavior and find disagreements grotesquely disgusting.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#194

Post by cloogshicer »

For everyone here recommending "How to win friends and influence people" (HWIP), I'd like to offer a counter point and recommend "The Art of Loving", by Erich Fromm.

The basic idea is that love and affection are not just feelings, but actual skills that need to be learned and cultivated.

It also introduces the distinction between being lovable and being loving.

HWIP largely teaches how to make yourself lovable, whereas the Art of Loving teaches the theory behind actively loving and embracing other people. I think it's a vital skill to have in any area of life, including business.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#195

Post by trabant00 »

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Just my opinion: the content of the book is for a certain type of person with a certain desired direction in life.

For another group of people the complete and opposite advice is the "right" way to go about it.

Trying to live life by other's people strengths and desires will cause a lot more problems than it will solve.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#196

Post by teekert »

throwaway848483 wrote: post #188
dougmwne wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is pretty spot and this is a telling quote from GP: >It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. Oh, but there is something there. People are not paper shells, but if you perceive them that way then you reveal your own blindness. Most non-ASD people find the emotional and experiential lives of others to be endlessly fascinating. Talking…

There are different levels though. There is complexity and tremendous ingenuity at any levels. It's just that the greater the level difference between two people, the less the interaction is fruitful for the both of them. Poverty might mean that a smart one may spend most of its brain power to make rent, instead of getting a PHD. Omnipresent marketing might have ingrained some ideas and dreams. People tend to stay in…

The fact that you are talking about a "level difference" reveals a very 1 (or low) dimensional look on things. Some people may be blend and boring in one dimension i.e. they are not "deeply self-aware people struggling with the boundaries of human knowledge". But they may have learned to cope with great trauma that would wipe others away. Or they have musical skills or their profession may teach you something (or are you already a good electrician?).

How would you feel being judged as several levels below me?

In 2013 or so, after going to a congress I booked another 5 days in the cheapest Hostel I could find (in New Orleans) and slept in the large sleeping hall in a bunk bed. One night cost me as much as the wifi in my previous hotel. And I met a teacher doing charity work on the Katrina disaster houses that were still dealing with fungi. He took me around the sites, to camp hope, I ate with all the volunteers. Many Christians and Mormons were there, this was new to me and I don't agree with religious people on many things but it was a wonderful experience. One I would have certainly missed with your attitude. On another night I met an artist living in a van that ran on waste cooking oil she filtered through old jeans. She was very conscientious about our planet and reflected that in her art. She thought me that art, like words and code are a means of communication but more on the emotional level. I never looked at it like that. I didn't see a single PhD that week and I liked it at least as much as the week before, talking about single molecule biophysics.

One of the most important lessons (imho) I teach my kids is to withhold judgement. Do not put absolute values on anything or anyone in a short amount of time. You will do yourself and other a disservice. Someone cutting you of in traffic may have a sick kid at home and in a hurry/distracted, someone being rude may have just been fired and about to burst in tears, etc.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#197

Post by ibeckermayer »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

Where do you live? Do you actively try meeting people with common interests?

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#199

Post by boohoojangles »

Intermernet wrote: post #198

Embrace being proven wrong. It's the foundation of the scientific method, but very difficult to do in reality. I now genuinely love being proven wrong. Smarter everyday and all that :-)

and realize that not being proven wrong doesn't mean one is right.

A lot of times I just don't even debate with whoever doesn't want to listen.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#200

Post by Dowwie »

Intertemporal decision making is really challenging. Future outcomes are undervalued relative to immediate ones. Further, we look to the future with rose-colored glasses that let us see a possible, yet unlikely future that we half-heartedly commit to today, without considering the reality that circumstances and motivations evolve over time and will influence future events from ever happening.

See the book,"The Economics of Self-Destructive Choices": https://www.amazon.com/Economics-Self-Destructive-Advances-J...

Research keywords: "intertemporal discounting"

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