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Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#191

Post by ad-hominem »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #179
234dd57d2c8dba wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like everyone in the USA has to wear body armor, has to set broken bones themselves and lives in tent cities. I have amazing dental, health, and eyecare. Free routine health checkups such as physicals, heck I even get a free gym membership. I drive a 350HP luxury sedan. Oh and I've never shot anyone, had to shoot anyone, or been the victim of a crime other than petty theft where my car was broken into one tim…

> I have amazing dental, health, and eyecare. I do have it too, albeit the only one I pay for is the dental one - but more importantly, the barista at my favourite coffee shop has them too. At the same quality level. > Free routine health checkups such as physicals, My doctor calls me to get those done. They chase me! for free! but more importantly, they also chase the barista guy :) > heck I even get a free gym memb…

Why would I need a 350HP luxury sedan?

Well, you have a 10 minute bike ride to work. In America, because of the size of the country, and the culture around bicycling, very very few people bike to work. A lot of people commute 20-30 minutes by car, because they live 8-20 miles from their work. So you don't need a car, especially a nice one. If you spent an hour in the car every day going to and from work, you would probably see the value in a nice(r) car.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#192

Post by whorleater »

MulliMulli wrote: post #150
234dd57d2c8dba wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like everyone in the USA has to wear body armor, has to set broken bones themselves and lives in tent cities. I have amazing dental, health, and eyecare. Free routine health checkups such as physicals, heck I even get a free gym membership. I drive a 350HP luxury sedan. Oh and I've never shot anyone, had to shoot anyone, or been the victim of a crime other than petty theft where my car was broken into one tim…

This is turning into a pissing contest.

Every $COUNTRY v $COUNTRY or $CITY v $CITY turns into a pissing contest because no one wants to admit they made the wrong choice in settling down somewhere, and end up presenting the best of their place and burying the worst.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#193

Post by tehlike »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #161
tehlike wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: US economy, startups, and so on are stronger than that of Europe's.

That is really a weird blanket statement: Both places have their own weirdness. You probably aren't going to do so well with a start-up in rural Mississippi or Indiana, mostly because folks don't have much money to spend on your wares, yet in some other areas it'll seem like they are doing well. Same thing with Europe. There are a lot of countries and economies and different regulations there and it is quite hard to…

eh that's true for any country on its own. Each country has both developed & tech savy areas and less/savy areas.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#194

Post by mtanski »

dx034 wrote: post #171
mtanski wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S has ~ 320 million people. So 2 magnitudes difference compared to some others. Additionally the U.S is quite large with many regions and sub-regions. Some regions have quite high GDP while others lower. So given that it's quite impressive versus much smaller and less populous countries. In any case it's a stretch to make an apples to apples comparison when you have 2 magnitudes of population difference.

That way you could say the US is a small country because it only has ~1/4 of the population of China. Just because a country has a smaller population it doesn't make it unsuitable to live or to compare economic data.

You're just being pedantic here.

There's a big difference between countries that above the US (top 18) on that list where there is a 10x to 100x difference. 1x (US) to 4x (China) does not a magnitude make.

Even given that I would concede that the U.S is a lot less populous country than China. Additionally, there's a lot of places where comparisons of stats are invalid because of that difference.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#195

Post by 234dd57d2c8dba »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #179
234dd57d2c8dba wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like everyone in the USA has to wear body armor, has to set broken bones themselves and lives in tent cities. I have amazing dental, health, and eyecare. Free routine health checkups such as physicals, heck I even get a free gym membership. I drive a 350HP luxury sedan. Oh and I've never shot anyone, had to shoot anyone, or been the victim of a crime other than petty theft where my car was broken into one tim…

> I have amazing dental, health, and eyecare. I do have it too, albeit the only one I pay for is the dental one - but more importantly, the barista at my favourite coffee shop has them too. At the same quality level. > Free routine health checkups such as physicals, My doctor calls me to get those done. They chase me! for free! but more importantly, they also chase the barista guy :) > heck I even get a free gym memb…

I think you took a negative tone to my post when it was not meant that way. A number of the things you pointed out are just facts of living in America vs Europe. I have to drive a car because everything is spread out. European cities were built over many centuries before cars were a thing.

I think it's safe to say tech workers are well compensated in both places, which was my point. The OP was acting very arrogant as if American tech workers didn't have healthcare, vacations, etc.

> You can play shooting sports. My uncle does it regularly. Part of my family are actually hunters.

I think you're deluding yourself. No offense, but I don't need to justify my gun ownership through the guise of "hunting" like you do in Germany or other European countries. I don't shoot animals, only paper and steel. I like guns so I own them. Also you would be outmatched in gun competitions such as 3 gun races simply because you are not allowed to purchase modern firearms like AR15s. You will just tire out faster than the guy carrying a 5LB AR15.

> You are privileged, I am privileged. However, I might not be who I am without free healthcare, cheap public nurseries, free quality schools, almost free universities, ... All paid by taxes of those who can, for those who can't. Remember you can be in one of those groups today and in the other tomorrow.

Agreed. Let's see how well your system copes with the refugee crisis. I'm eager to see if "those who can" can really feed the mouths of all the refugees. A number of important litmus tests for our modern society are taking place in Europe as we speak. A positive outcome might tip the scales here in America.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#196

Post by rev_bird »

RandomBookmarks wrote: post #70
rev_bird wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is/was your friend an American citizen? I've been fascinated by emigrating to Europe for a long time and am always looking for stories about how people pull it off.

This is rather easy for the typical HN crowd. For example, to get a working visa for Germany (Blue card) you "only" need to find a job that pays more than 50000 Euro/year. In a nutshell, that is all. http://www.bamf.de/EN/Infothek/FragenAntworten/BlaueKarteEU/...

Had no idea about this, thank you for passing it along. This part is particularly interesting:

> Holders of an EU Blue Card can enter another Member State without a visa after 18 months and apply for the EU Blue Card of that Member State within a period of one month.

And it looks like Americans (at least for now...) can go to Germany before they're even approved:

> Exceptions apply to nationals of Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, the Republic of Korea, New Zealand and the United States of America. They can enter Germany on a visa-free basis and can apply to the competent immigration authority in Germany for their future place of residence for an EU Blue Card within three months of entering Germany.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#197

Post by rev_bird »

cr1895 wrote: post #158
rev_bird wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is/was your friend an American citizen? I've been fascinated by emigrating to Europe for a long time and am always looking for stories about how people pull it off.

I'll link you to a comment I made a few days ago about moving to the NL: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=13522661

Thank you; missed this the first time around. Suddenly really interested in learning Dutch...

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#198

Post by rev_bird »

brightsize wrote: post #71
rev_bird wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is/was your friend an American citizen? I've been fascinated by emigrating to Europe for a long time and am always looking for stories about how people pull it off.

Same here. This might be one route to consider: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT

Thanks for this. I'm sure it's not quite as scary as it sounds, but the only thing I can think of that's more challenging than "start a business" is "start a business in a new country where you don't know the language." The "friendship treaty" seems like a great idea, but right now I'm not a very good friend.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#199

Post by NetStrikeForce »

234dd57d2c8dba wrote: post #195
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have amazing dental, health, and eyecare. I do have it too, albeit the only one I pay for is the dental one - but more importantly, the barista at my favourite coffee shop has them too. At the same quality level. > Free routine health checkups such as physicals, My doctor calls me to get those done. They chase me! for free! but more importantly, they also chase the barista guy :) > heck I even get a free gym memb…

I think you took a negative tone to my post when it was not meant that way. A number of the things you pointed out are just facts of living in America vs Europe. I have to drive a car because everything is spread out. European cities were built over many centuries before cars were a thing. I think it's safe to say tech workers are well compensated in both places, which was my point. The OP was acting very arrogant as…

> I think you took a negative tone to my post when it was not meant that way. A number of the things you pointed out are just facts of living in America vs Europe. I have to drive a car because everything is spread out. European cities were built over many centuries before cars were a thing.

Well, I do think the potential salary difference is not worth it; and the reasons are what I've stated in my reply.

> I think it's safe to say tech workers are well compensated in both places, which was my point.

They are, agreed.

> The OP was acting very arrogant as if American tech workers didn't have healthcare, vacations, etc.

Well, they rarely have healthcare at the same level you can get in Canada, Spain, UK, etc - which is given to any worker in those countries. That is my point :)

They rarely have paid vacation, too.

> I think you're deluding yourself. No offense, but I don't need to justify my gun ownership through the guise of "hunting" like you do in Germany or other European countries. I don't shoot animals, only paper and steel. I like guns so I own them. Also you would be outmatched in gun competitions such as 3 gun races simply because you are not allowed to purchase modern firearms like AR15s. You will just tire out faster than the guy carrying a 5LB AR15.

You play gun sports, I told you can play gun sports in Europe too. It's a thing - not just "hunting" (seriously?:)). Good for you if you like to shoot AR15s.

> Agreed. Let's see how well your system copes with the refugee crisis.

Funnily enough, the US is not part of the refugee crisis yet your government is freaking out more than anyone. Food for thought.

> I'm eager to see if "those who can" can really feed the mouths of all the refugees.

It is possible. It has been proven in Germany of all places.

Funnily enough, the US used to be the receiver of refugees. Germans, Italians, Irish, Polish, Hungarians, Cubans, ... And it worked well.

> A number of important litmus tests for our modern society are taking place in Europe as we speak. A positive outcome might tip the scales here in America.

And we will prevail.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#200

Post by schmichael »

acchow wrote: post #132
closeparen wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a $250k Bay Area household, you are not even starting to scratch the position of a $90k (i.e. $50k accountant + $40k teacher) household in a Midwestern metro, i.e. comfortably afford to own a 3-bedroom in a pleasant neighborhood with good public schools and a sub-30-minute commute to the central business district. The rest of the standard-of-living costs (food, toiletries, etc.) would be vanishingly small, but hou…

Stop trying to own. Just rent.

This is generally terrible advice in the US. The tax breaks for ownership (mortgage interest + property taxes) is huge, and it is likely - although far from guaranteed - that your real estate investment will become more valuable over time.

Rent - generally - never goes down, you have no tax breaks, and you have no asset.

There are many lifestyle reasons to rent but few financial (in the US).

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