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Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

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Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#181

Post by wruza »

Insanity wrote: post #89
wruza wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell myself to not adhd it and instead take time and read through a whole manual, experiment in a local sandbox, grasp the limits of knowledge and features and also where it gets deep. Then in a regular work I explicitly detect where it pays off and feel “see I told you”. This creates a motivational loop to continue not-adhd-ing through tech. Sometimes I still fly over the knowledge, but then may note that what I’v…

My issue with this method of learning is… deadlines. During work time, I often feel that I need to solve something “quick”, which then leads me to usually learn and really deep dive outside of regular work hours instead. Now, I mostly actually enjoy doing this and thus it has not really limited me. But I wish I could just spend some actual work time on more ‘non adhd-ing’ what I learn.

Yeah, deadlines suck. Historically I managed to "manage the management" into a reasonable rush/cook balance most of the time, which allows for healthy exploration, but that is absolutely "ymmw" thing.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#182

Post by imajoredinecon »

I was in a similar situation in my first job: really interesting domain, colleagues I liked, but no other software engineers. It was really tough for me, so I left for a traditional big tech job after a year. I guess I don’t have any advice for you: just sympathy and encouragement.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#183

Post by pedrosorio »

noobahoi wrote: post #47
Arainach wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning by yourself is (on average) significantly harder. Some people can do it and succeed, but it's very easy to learn bad habits if no one is talking you out of them, to focus on the "fun" parts to the detriment of important but tedious parts, and so on. Far more people who attempt to be "self taught" fail than become incredibly successful. You can have bad mentors/seniors, but looking for people to learn from an…

Well, it's harder, but I don't think it's too hard. You have to keep your motivation high.

Motivation is not the limiting factor. Not knowing what you don’t know is.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#184

Post by mherkender »

I'm self-taught, mostly anyway.

I don't know what kind of languages/environments you use, but I recommend investigating and trying out some popular technologies and architectures that are allowed in the scope of your work. Try to understand the pros and cons of each approach.

When you want to know the "right way" to do something, try reading the code of the most experienced programmers and successful projects written in the same languages/environments as yours. Very little in software is "new" so chances are someone has tried it before. Maybe LLMs are good for this, but I usually just read the code.

Focus on iterative improvement not destinations, because you'll never be "done" you just move onto the next project and the next technology. You'll get better as long as you're trying to learn new things.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#185

Post by bovermyer »

In addition to others' excellent suggestions, I have one for you.

Keep a tech journal.

In it, describe what you're working on, what problems you're trying to solve, and questions you have.

Make conjectures based on what you know and what you guess, and write those in the journal too. Come back later and flesh out or correct those conjectures as you learn more.

As your writing reveals holes in your knowledge, add those topics to a list of things to research.

This kind of journal is much easier to keep in a wiki or note-taking app like Obsidian, since you can then build a personal knowledge base around it. However, you can also do it the old-fashioned way, with pen and paper. Do whatever comes easiest, since that's what will stick.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#186

Post by woodylondon »

I spent 90% of my 30-year career in this way. What I learned over time is that you become much more self-sufficient in problem-solving and learning. Having only worked in a couple of larger companies, it was easy for some people to hide. If you were lazy, there was little incentive to learn, as you could simply ask someone else for help. However, if you're a self-starter and eager to learn independently, you may find that this trait becomes a significant asset later on. Depends how much time you are sat reading HH :) on a serious point - the other comments below are all good advice. Going to meetups, user groups etc also were very beneficial to me in the early years - sadly face to face user groups are less in vogue now since the internet took over.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#188

Post by samiv »

Ok, wow really?

Fresh grad, 6 months into their first job and working as a "tech lead". Are you leading anyone else but yourself?

I know I'll get down voted but if you were really looking to grow you'd

a) quit and get that junior job more suited to your skill level

b) hire someone to replace yourself and demote yourself to junior role in your own team. (This would not even necessarily affect your comp.)

But seriously though if you're just looking for maximal comp, stay where you are. I'm sure you can become senior director in the next 6 mo.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#189

Post by louthy »

I never had help from senior engineers. No mentoring whatsoever. I learned by doing, making my own mistakes, learning from them. So it’s not a requirement to have good mentors. Although they may shorten the journey.

Having an insatiable drive to learn is the only requirement! Keep reading, keep doing.

Would I change it if I could? No. I think I’ve built up a strong will and understanding of the craft. The opinions I have are self formed from doing. I like that.

I at least tried to reverse the situation by doing whatever I could to help mentor my juniors over the years. But it must be said: just because someone is senior it doesn’t mean they’re good. You can easily end up learning dogmatic bullshit that takes years to shake off.

So I always say to juniors “take my words with a pinch of salt. I might be wrong. You need to find out what you believe on your own. Don’t just rely on my words alone”.

In your situation you should have an honest and frank discussion with your boss. Tell them you're feeling a bit out of your depth. Explain that you think you need more senior heads to help guide the project. He/she'll either take it seriously, or not. If not, leave and find somewhere else to work. If you don't have this conversation then any failure will be yours alone. If you do have the conversation, then you've moved the ownership of future issues to your boss.

Also, working in a company where the product is what you write is the place where you'll learn the most.

Re: Ask HN: How can I grow as an engineer without good seniors to learn from?

#190

Post by EasyMark »

That are millions of resources online and books. Also, I’ll let you in on a secret, after about 5 years most people are starting to plateau in a field or singular area of knowledge, barring a few exceptions. After that what tends to separate people is the breadth of the their knowledges, they move on to other topics and broaden, or they deep dive one specialty of their specialty and continue to grow. If you can’t find learning at work, you will have to do it outside of work or move on to a new job. Your education is your responsibility, and as an engineer or scientist you should always be trying to learn something new, even if it’s outside your expertise, or just a hobby you are passionate about.
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