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Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#181

Post by unethical_ban »

bodge5000 wrote: post #118

With all due respect, this is mostly my problem with the "work-from-office" (WFO for ease) crowd. Generally, the stance of the WFH crowd is that each individual should get a choice of what makes that individual happy. Very few, if any, of the WFH crowd want mandatated WFH, it would make no sense. But then the WFO crowd often says no, I don't care what makes you happy, because you being in makes me happy. That doesn't…

Work is a third of our life, and it seems reasonable that many people would want social interaction during that time. Further, at least in the workplace I had before Covid, people could work from home as needed, or even part time, depending on their management. Granted this was for IT, not for the whole company though.

You think WFH is every individuals choice in this new world. It isn’t.

The last place I worked had 25,000 people on its main campus. Three gyms, three coffee shops, four cafeterias and more square footage than the pentagon.

When every person chooses, in a fit of glee, to WFH all the time, that community dies. Maybe in a generation, the world will adapt, but I look back on the mid 2010s as what will possibly have been the best part of my lifelong career due to the energy, the learning, the comraderie, and the amenities of my tech job.

WFH is a group decision. Don’t think it’s morally superior to choose WFH.

I’m like OP, I see many benefits in terms of living flexibility and people caring for dependents. But it will have profound negative consequences on professional development and social development for workers going forward.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#182

Post by [deleted] »

Georgelemental wrote: post #166
atribecalledqst wrote: post #154

At least for me, my primary hangup for going back to the office is that COVID -isn't over-! Since I can do my job just as well from home as from the office, I'd far prefer to stay in an environment where I have control over my level of risk. (I realize not everybody has this at home, but I live alone) For this reason, when I hear corporate taking advantage of the between-wave lull to trumpet going back to the office,…

At this point COVID is about as over as it will ever be. So do you plan to continue living as you are for the rest of your life?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#183

Post by bodge5000 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #172
bodge5000 wrote: post #118

With all due respect, this is mostly my problem with the "work-from-office" (WFO for ease) crowd. Generally, the stance of the WFH crowd is that each individual should get a choice of what makes that individual happy. Very few, if any, of the WFH crowd want mandatated WFH, it would make no sense. But then the WFO crowd often says no, I don't care what makes you happy, because you being in makes me happy. That doesn't…

I think there are many “subcultures” (for lack of better description) within WFH and WFO. You’re describing two of them, but there’s also a group of WFH’ers that believes the whole organization should be remote as to standardize the processes to be asynchronous, and there are WFO’ers that still like to work from home one or two days a week. There’s also WFH but within the same country, WFH globally across all timezon…

Absolutely, there are always going to be subcultures within this kind of thing, but I highly doubt the majority of those want to force their preference to others, certainly for the WFH crowd and to be fair I'd assume from the WFO crowd either, at least not consciously.

> There’s definitely no such thing as the WFO’er that wants to force their preferences upon others any more than there are WFH’ers doing the same thing.

I can only go anecdotally on this but that certainly hasn't been my experience. I assume there are some WFH'ers who want to force their preference, but I've never seen any of them. However, I've encounter it many times from the reverse. I am pro-WFH, which might explain why, but again all I can go off is personal experience here.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#184

Post by ihateolives »

switch007 wrote: post #68
closewith wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the case, why are dev salaries in, for example, Dublin so much higher than Berlin (€115,000 vs €86,000 if Levels.fyi is to be believed)? Both are EU capitals with excellent, well-educated workforces.

Maybe unrelated but Dublin has an insane housing crisis. You need to offer large incentives for people to come to try to find housing. I know a company who agreed to pay €5,000/mo for an aparthotel while they find somewhere. The person came from far edges of Europe, not a specialised or very senior role at all

A friend of mine had an offer to move to Dublin. After looking at housing situation and calculating the costs to bring wife and kids (daycare, babysitter etc) along he declined, because his would be salary wouldn't have outweighed comfortable living costs that much.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#185

Post by andsoitis »

bodge5000 wrote: post #169
shiftpgdn wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on a team that has a mandatory "in-person" day twice a month. This seems to be the best balance for everyone as it's just infrequent enough to not feel like a grind but frequent enough to keep everyone moving in the same direction.

Given the choice, I'd never take a hybrid role. It means I still need to keep the "infrastructure" needed to get to the office (eg a car, public transport around me is terrible), but it sits unused 90% of the time. I can't get properly comfortable working at home or in the office because I'm constantly in between the two. Its just not for me.

For twice a month you could probably Uber / rent a car and expense it, no?

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#186

Post by sebastiansm »

hooby wrote: post #157

I personally enjoy WFH - but I also enjoy the self-organized "office day" me and my team hold once a week, to get together with everyone, having coffee together in the morning, and sometimes a beer after work. I think it's important to keep personally connected to your team - and while I feel that should be possible with WFH as well, it seems like the online tools we use aren't really up for it though. We tried havin…

Just hang on Roblox

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#187

Post by organsnyder »

auslegung wrote: post #163

I’m of two minds. I work remotely but miss the benefits of the office. On one hand, I am getting paid over 2x what local companies would pay me, the convenience and flexibility are wonderful WFH, I get to spend more time with my family, etc. On the other hand, I miss all the things you listed. Plus I’m an advocate of eXtreme Programming, which means pair programming all the time. Pair programming with people who have…

This is my experience exactly. I live in an area with a small tech employer base (almost all consultancies or non-tech corporations) and a tradition of worker-hostile compensation and benefits. I'm able to make twice as much working remote, with unlimited PTO (and a culture that makes it work) and other benefits not available from local employers.

Frequent video collaboration with colleagues gets me 75% of the way to replicating the benefits of working in the office, and we also meet in person a few times per year. It's not perfect, but it's preferable to the alternatives. And it's nice to be present and available for my spouse and kids.

I've toyed with the idea of setting up another desk in the room next to my office for friends (or perhaps strangers) to come in and co-work if they want an occasional change of scenery. It is nice to work in the presence of other workers at times, even if they don't work for the same company.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#188

Post by serpix »

broast wrote: post #17

In my experience, I've developed closer chemistry and more socialization with my team while we've been fully remote, than when we were in person. There is a generation right behind you that is raised on socializing online, that may find it more rewarding than you're willing to.

you call it chemistry and socialisation. What I call chemistry and socialisation are actual sensory inputs like smell, touch, sound and real eye contact. I can't bypass real human contact with a flat screen.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#189

Post by mech422 »

You made your job your social life... I was the same when I was younger. That petered off once I had a family. Now 40 years in, my work and social circles barely intersect. Now, I find WFH to be more productive, easier to concentrate, and I have better equipment then I usually have at an office. I've been full time WFH for 20 years, and can't imagine going back...
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