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Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

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Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#181

Post by incomingpain »

I've had this happen with doctors as well. Not the whole torches thing? That seems wierd to me. Additionally also teachers and police do this.

I as a project manager and tech implemented a solution in parallel to an old system. I had a pilot group who approved, but that group wasn't selected by me. It didn't include anyone important or basically anyone who cared.

The 'powers that be' said go forward and when the doctors were told about the new system them walked off the job. Literally all of them. I wasnt the one who picked the software, I just installed it. Still made me feel very small. I learnt years later that whole software package was never used and the doctors walked out again to demonstrate against 'the old software they have to deal with'

I basically learnt we were just an excuse to take a break.

My experience with teachers was a different one. I implemented a new 5ghz N aironet with controller for 1 school. Didnt inform anyone because the actual connectivity mechanism wasnt going to change. Teachers all walked out because... wifi causes cancer. Mind you, its not like I really introduced anything particularly new.

Police was more old school, it was more along the lines of 'we arent techsavvy enough to use that'. But this was only so many years ago, it wasnt really appropriate anymore.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#182

Post by itstriz »

This might not be exactly what you're looking for but maybe 10 or 15 years ago, Defective by Design (organized by Free Software Foundation) was putting together in person demonstrations outside of Apple stores to protest against the use of DRM in iTunes.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#183

Post by quacked »

permo-w wrote: post #120
quacked wrote: post #13

Secondary to the question, but I live right by the Epic campus and use the Epic MyChart platform to communicate with the University of Wisconsin health system. It is phenomenal as a patient; I can handle all billing, message any doctor I've seen, view test results as soon as they're uploaded, etc. Recently I saw the results of some bloodwork in the ER before the nurses had time to come and tell me about it. (The UI/U…

I don’t mean this to sound passive aggressive; I’m genuinely unsure: are you using “UI/UX” correctly here? if you’re getting exactly what you want from it, is that not good UX?

Maybe? I think that the system is poorly designed, but I can still do everything I want to do with a medium level of difficulty in achieving it. MyChart is way better than nothing, but it's not as good as "a good version of MyChart".

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#184

Post by kakoni »

Epic timeline in Scandinavia

2013 - Sundhedsplatform in Denmark chooses to go with Epic system. Go-live was a huge mess is 2016 and the system still doesn't work properly

2016 - Apotti platform in Finland chooses to go with Epic. In 2022 600 over doctors signed an petition to get rid of epic.

2020 - Helseplatform in Norway chooses Epic. And well, how is it going.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#185

Post by quijoteuniv »

kakoni wrote: post #184

Epic timeline in Scandinavia 2013 - Sundhedsplatform in Denmark chooses to go with Epic system. Go-live was a huge mess is 2016 and the system still doesn't work properly 2016 - Apotti platform in Finland chooses to go with Epic. In 2022 600 over doctors signed an petition to get rid of epic. 2020 - Helseplatform in Norway chooses Epic. And well, how is it going.

Just for acuracy: Is just 1 of the 5 Health regions of Norway that chose it. Funny fact the head of IT of the Trondheim Comune was openly against the proposal in the media. After they went with it he replied in interviews that he does not comment on the project.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#186

Post by MisterSandman »

msbarnett wrote: post #20

Sure. Public servants rally in Ottawa to protest Phoenix payroll system: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/public-servants-ra... Highly doubt that this is the only time a Peoplesoft clusterfuck inspired demonstrations, either. Some software is just unbelievably shitty.

Holy shit. The lady at the end wasn't paid for 7 MONTHS! How the fuck is this legal?

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#187

Post by quijoteuniv »

ochrist wrote: post #154

In Denmark something similar happened a few years back. Sundhedsplatformen is also an implementation of Epic. But I don't think there was a big demonstration like this. There was a lot of bad press when this happened, but today we don't hear a lot about it, probably because the system in the end proved to be better than what it replaced. Also, a lot of bugs was closed.

«Probably because the system in the end proved to be better…» Do you actually have some data on this?

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#188

Post by devilbunny »

PubliusMI wrote: post #89
electriccatblan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: My Epic experience is around a decade old. I never saw a riot, but I definitely saw providers who hated Epic when it was installed. As in people literally screaming at the top of their lungs at IT nerds. I saw a few contributing factors: 1. Epic supports making all the technically-mandatory-but-not-mandatory-if-you're-in-a-hurry data actually mandatory, so providers have more typing and less ability to ju…

>technically-mandatory-but-not-mandatory-if-you're-in-a-hurry :/

It happens in hospitals. Treat the human first, treat the chart once they're stable. Speedbumps in the process are fine, because we shouldn't be bypassing protocol all the time, but flat-out roadblocks aren't, because sometimes we really don't have time to worry about all that.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#189

Post by msbarnett »

MisterSandman wrote: post #186
msbarnett wrote: post #20

Sure. Public servants rally in Ottawa to protest Phoenix payroll system: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/public-servants-ra... Highly doubt that this is the only time a Peoplesoft clusterfuck inspired demonstrations, either. Some software is just unbelievably shitty.

Holy shit. The lady at the end wasn't paid for 7 MONTHS! How the fuck is this legal?

It is broadly speaking not legal. Many lawsuits spiralled out of this. In the broadest settlement, workers were entitled to $2,500 in general damages plus any out-of-pocket costs & losses incurred due to this clusterfuck including "a compensation process for severe impacts such as ruined credit ratings, accumulated interest on loans or credit cards, loss of security clearance due to bankruptcy, mental anguish and trauma, or loss of savings from cashing in investments such as RRSPs to pay debts". There's still other lawsuits ongoing.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever heard of users demonstrating against software?

#190

Post by pythko »

bearjaws wrote: post #137
actually_a_dog wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medical staff don't like Epic because it's the kind of software that's sold to administrators, but used by providers. Guess who has the most sway in things like what features are included and how much effort gets invested into making the UX good?

Bingo, Epic has probably the most in depth sales team, they know everything about your organization and YOU before even starting the call. They will smooch, take to dinner, do whatever it takes to bribe the head of office staff. Then once they're in the door they convince you to hire 5-10 of their 'Epic Engineers' and charge you $500+ an hour for the honor. Soon you discover that you can never really get rid of those…

I don’t think Epic’s install costs are secret or a “gotcha”. Any administrator interested in Epic can look at 20 years of installs and see that an Epic implementation is routinely a multi year, $100 million+ project for large organizations.

I’m also not sure what these “Epic Engineers” you’re referring to are, but I know that IT staffing is a conversation that happens early on in the sales process and it is not a surprise to anyone who’s looked around at existing Epic sites.

Whatever Epic’s flaws may be, I don’t think “public boondoggle” is a fair portrayal of how they do business.

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