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Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

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181–190 of 289 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#181

Nobody knows how to do a failure analysis. I used to work in r&d, now that I’m building websites and mobile apps the culture doesn’t care. Pointing out obvious design limitations will, more often that not, make me the asshole. Not even trying to delay ship or get future rework scheduled, just having it documented is too much. Out of sight out of mind.

True!

It's Risk. Humans are typically insanely bad at understanding risk, how to assess it, and how to mitigate it.

For most, if something is risky, it's just a black box, perhaps with some odds, and it's either feared or ignored (or both).

Few understand the critical difference between using knowledge, skill, technology, and planning to manage and mitigate risk, vs rolling the dice and getting away with it for a long time.

Using knowledge, skill, technology, and planning to manage and mitigate risk has gotten humans to great heights - we can make entire careers living in environments in which random behaviors will kill us in seconds (e.g., aerospace, underwater, large construction, metals refining, etc.).

But most people think much more naively, and even do so in professional environments unless required otherwise (and even sometimes where they are). So, they just think that if something isn't obviously a risk, or only happens occasionally, ignore it.

This is just rolling the dice. Even if you get away with it for a long time, that only makes you more falsely confident and therefore more vulnerable. From the last mild pandemic, there are over a million dead and close to half million suffering long disease from this attitude.

And you see it in your work - you simply point out an obvious very damaging failure mode, even just to document it, and you get a hostile reaction.

I'm not sure what to do about it. Perhaps rock climbing should be a required activity in school, learning to viscerally manage risk, and showing that it is usually actually easy to to?

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#182
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern financial capitalism has squeezed redundancy out of everything If by "modern financial capitalism" you mean "customers who prefer cheaper to superior quality of product and/or service", then I agree with you.

How often are customers really given that choice, as opposed to companies making the decision on their behalf because customers are stupid (they just want a better horse after all). We can't buy what doesn't exist after all.

> How often are customers really given that choice?

You and your competition produce two equivalent products. They sell theirs for $100: do you feel confident in pricing yours at $110 and base your commercial copy on "We rely on a more robust logistic chain in case of a world-wide catastrophe"?

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#183
post #135
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they don't know how to. It's that there's an economic incentive to not care. So they don't.

Exactly, and the incentive is that customers do not care. Build quality, keep redundancy, and in the next pandemic your business will flourish... unless you'll have had to close it before 'cause of people buying cheap and not good!

I assert that customers do care. Customers were quite annoyed that they couldn't buy vehicles, regardless of the price. Or do you just not remember the complaints?

On the business side, Toyota - the progenator of JIT manufacturing who still warehoused chips to deal with a shortage exactly like what happened - flourished at a time where others floundered. As an added bonus, they were still able to remain profitable prior to the shortage, despite having warehoused chips.

I think the "buy cheap not good" is more of a proactive excuse from companies who want to sell cheap goods to maximize their profit. Kind of an extension of the "never ask customers what they want, they'd just want better horses" or "they can have it in any color so long as it's black" tropes.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#184
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's also something to be said for how modern financial capitalism has > squeezed redundancy out of everything. Supply chains are just-in-time, Hence the automotive/chips and other recent shortages...

Are you implying we should have wasted billions manufacturing extra chips just in case there was a shortage and consumers didn't want to wait a year before buying a new car/truck?

Not wasted. Stocked by automakers, for their own use.

Car manufacturers have the nasty habit of keeping no stock —at all— even of inexpensive stuff like microchips, smd components, nuts, bolts... and ordering everything "just in time", while at the same time maintaining a steel-fisted strangle-hold on suppliers which are obliged to provide them what's needed when, or die.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or vulnerablities for fully accountable governments to exploit, either. Governments may be accountable to their supporters, but they're not necessarily accountable to me. They could decide tomorrow that it's illegal to be Jewish or to have been descended from Jews, and they have before.

That's a much stronger argument, that I'm indeed sympathetic to. But I don't think it will ever win in the courts of public opinion or practicality. In general, governments are always going to demand some way to identify and enumerate their citizens, and so making that a deliberate thing rather than an emergent thing allows it to be better constrained. If involuntary storage of personal information were limited to bo…

> In general, governments are always going to demand some way to identify and enumerate their citizens

I think that this is something that has only become insisted upon in very recent history (when it was seen as a technical and social possibility), and that governments functioned just as well without. Ways of identifying strangers should be annoying, tedious, and expensive.

edit: When I was a kid, you could spend a week in jail and be released without the justice system having any way to verify who you were.

edit: What I'm really saying is that the "national identity verification type service" is as much a problem as the corporate databases, which it's also not really distinct from (the corporate databases work as a national identity verification service.) The problem is this desire to account for and control everything. Everyone with a little power is overcome with data FOMO.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#186

Your phone is leveraged so much because it provides companies with deeper tracking capabilities. Most laptops and PCs only geo locate based on their connection points, phones have accelerometers and more accurate location and ID info in them, so many app makers hobble browser-based app iterations to encourage mostly phone use. They also know users are engaged and focused on content more when they are on phones becaus…

For reddit- sure, but why banks? Surely managing hundreds of thousands of my money is worth more than some geo data.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#187
That's why I have three phones fully set up (two would be sufficient, but I just happen to have an iPhone and two OPs).

Technically you can also set up an additional Authenticator on your computer. But my bank authorization are either app based or phone number dependent - so one main phone featuring both and additional phone having the app set up.

I don't like it either.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#188
post #18

This is a big problem for me as a traveller. If I travel long distance and I lose my phone, I lose access to both my personal and business bank. I once dropped my phone in a lake (I'm clumsy) and was locked out of most things for a few weeks. I prefer TOTP for most things. Keepass supports them across platforms, but Aegis has a better experience on mobiles.

how about taking a fully set up back up phone with you? that's what I do. losing a phone travelling nowadays is in deed an expensive and extremely inconvenient mishap.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything? The only thing that goes wrong is being unable to travel internationally, but I think consulates often have a process for issuing emergency documents for even that case?

Try to present a foreign ID without your visa to a US police agent and let me know how it goes.

will provide for an exciting story to tell when you're back but should be resolvable in about 24h pretty much everywhere on the planet.

Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?

#190
post #45

Only banks do that. All other services accept TOTP (which you can have on multiple devices) or YubiKeys/webauthn/U2F (where you can add multiple hardware keys). And even here, my bank accepts two (or more) devices with an active instance of their app. So the solution to this spof is the same as always: redundancy. You need a second phone. Your old one is probably good enough.

> Your old one is probably good enough. Some of us use the same phone for years, until it loses OS/security updates. My current phone is 6 years old. By the time I upgrade, my current phone will not be able to run current authenticator or bank apps, which will target an iOS version above the last one supported by my phone. So no, my old one is not "good enough" unless I upgrade more often than I'm comfortable with.

Funnily enough, I just had a meeting with a client asking why they would need two (and then likely more) servers doing the very same thing. Wouldn't that increase the price? Well, yeah.
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