Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#181

Post by vikaveri » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

danaris wrote: post #83

28304283409234 wrote: post #42

I'm on my 3rd(!) company supplied macbook in almost 2 years. Macbook Pro, 16'', 32GB. First Macbook: screen broke in the middle. Second Macbook: screen broke and MacOS is complaining that there's something wrong with the SSD. Third macbook I just received and can't tell what will break. But break it will. I only move them around the house, never on the road. When I move them, I place them in a Thule Gauntlet. I reall…

There have definitely been some noteworthy problems with Apple's laptops in recent years...but I'm honestly not sure what it is you're doing to them to break screens on multiple machines in a row. You're the first person I've ever heard with that specific complaint, which suggests it may be something unusual about your usage pattern that's causing it. Note that this isn't saying "you're being abusive to the computers…

Yeah, maybe he's holding it wrong?

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#182

Post by sdflhasjd » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

ppetty wrote: post #136

"I strongly dislike MacOS because they force the "apple way" of doing things." What does that mean exactly? I'm genuinely curious about what Apple forces a user to do. I would think cost is a concrete example ... But does Apple restrict you from using some software? or executing some work related function? some other functionality? or is that "Apple way" with regard to Apple's user experiences? I wish there was a "Ve…

Vent? I recently had an issue where my Internet connection went down, I was left with my phone and a tiny data cap.

The work I was doing required an Internet connection, but when I tethered my mac, it kept trying to download gigabytes of updates.

It ended in a stalemate with seeming no way to pause, cancel or cap the download.

Both windows and Linux will set you set download cap, flag connections as metered, pause downloads or kill update processes.

I find that a lot of other Apple stuff grating too, not limited to:

- iOS development hoops with certs, provisioning profiles, beta reviews. It doesn't help that AppStoreConnect is bad.

- Apple Developer account 2FA - which is either "trusted device" or SMS. SMS is unreliable and insecure, trusted device ties me to a laptop I don't want to always have with me.

- I had to sign into the AppStore on my mac to get XCode, and now it insists on me using iCloud and iMessage.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#183

Post by kingrazor » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

I've worked in a software validation lab for the past 5 years where we have 100s of laptops in use. My bench has 8-10 laptops sitting on it at any given time, all of them running 24/7, though none of them doing anything particularly demanding. So I have what I believe to be some unique experience in this.

All of these laptops are higher end business models from major OEMs (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc...) I was an avid fan of Thinkpad T series laptops for quite a while, but in the last couple of years I've had a lot of problems with them and am no longer confident in that series. I've never been a fan of HP, and have had mixed results with their products. Their higher end business stuff is decent, but I've had issues here and there. Oddly, despite the many horror stories I've heard, the Dell Latitudes I've worked with have been the most rock-solid. No swollen batteries, no broken displays, no random bricking (happened to two different T460Ss I had), no BSODs.

I've personally not had great experiences with Macs in general, but have a lot less experience with them than PCs. I have not found Macs to be notably better than mid to high end PCs in terms of hardware quality.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#184

Post by brundolf » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

muzani wrote: post #180

uniqueuid wrote: post #24

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

Apple has the same problem. In college, we'd bring our own mice to the computer labs because it was better than the buttonless Apple mice they had there. Even today, the input devices have been IMO Apple's weak spot and the main reason I stayed away from MacBooks. I had a MBP, 2019 I believe. It was riddled with problems. True Tone color was wrong. Flickering on the display. The weird internet connectivity which ofte…

A key differentiator though is that when Apple gets something wrong it's usually a poor design decision, not careless craftsmanship. The Magic Mouse and the Apple TV remote from a couple years ago are two of the most beautifully-crafted examples of bad input devices that you can possibly find

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#185

Post by Terretta » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

sedatk wrote: post #30

uniqueuid wrote: post #24

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

> Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound that materials make when handling them? About flickering in software? About inconsistent spacing? About janky color combinations? I think Microsoft's Surface lineup has been making good strides on that front, but they still have a long way to go.

> Surface lineup has been making good strides

Making laptops and tablets was anecdotally a business MSFT didn't particularly want to be in but the OEM options for business workplace were that embarrassing the bar had to be raised by someone.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#186

Post by dbevv » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 9:58 PM UTC

uniqueuid wrote: post #24

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

I dislike using touchpads very much. I go to great lengths to control everything with the keyboard, and fall back to a traditional mouse when I have to (I tried trackballs but I couldn't adapt). Whenever I'm forced to use a touchpad because I'm on the go or I don't have room to bring a mouse with me, I groan.

That said, the implementation of the touchpad in a Macbook vs a regular touchpad in even a high end laptop is night and day. The software and hardware work together to make sure the touch surface is centered, and your fingers glide through it, there are no accidental presses, and esentially never misinput. The haptic feedback is so good that you can't really tell that you're not pressing a button. In comparison, the touchpad in what I consider the best Windows laptop, the Lenovo X1 Carbon, is a steaming pile of shit, and fails every measure.

I don't know how much of it is Apple's attention to detail versus their ability to do vertical integration -- Lenovo likely has very little control over how Synaptics implements their drivers -- but I would pay a hefty premium for an experience like a Macbook.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#187

Post by Delk » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 9:59 PM UTC

everyone wrote: post #97

uniqueuid wrote: post #24

I may be an outlier, but for me, the problem with non-mac machines is that they seem just careless. Steve jobs famously said "The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.", and this seems true to me for almost all hardware manufacturers, and to a larger degree still for software. Why does nobody care about creaking plastic? About sticky-feeling texture? About uneven weight distribution? About the sound…

Jewellery is a great analogy imo. Apple is a jewellery company imo. They sell expensive, shiny, conspicuous consumption items without practical use. I was shocked when I found out that macs are popular among people who actually work with computers and even make software. It will never cease to shock me. The only explanation I can think of is that this is a USA social class thing. In the USA the upper classes have App…

The combination of Unix, a polished user interface and a system that Just Works(TM) appeals to a lot of tech people. That combination at least used to be a kind of a holy grail.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#188

Post by Toniglandyl » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 10:02 PM UTC

AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote: post #128

bsder wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does nobody care about the janky Bluetooth mouse that's only janky on macOS? Why does nobody care that my USB 2.0 ports on my external USB-C docks die in about 20 minutes necessitating a reboot--again, only on macOS (and only on newer macOS versions--old ones work fine). How many years did it take Apple to (sort of) fix their shittastic keyboards? How garbagey is Xcode relative to any other IDE nowadays? I can go…

I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion. I don't have the same issues you do with janky mice and USB 2.0 ports. I owned a previous Macbook Air with a "shittastic" keyboard and never had an issue– although I'm glad I now have the new M1 with a better keyboard. > Macbooks may look pretty, but the software has been becoming increasingly garbage. I had the unfortunate displeasure of being issued a top of the line Windows…

> and bash environments You mean zsh on mac, I think.

You may try Fedora, for me it just works (with an AMD graphic card), and Gnome is pretty usable, even ergonomics these days.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#189

Post by stonogo » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 10:03 PM UTC

uoaei wrote: post #123

stonogo wrote: post #9

XPS is prosumer grade at best. You need a Precision or Latitude product (preferably a Latitude 7xxx) to get a quality product.

My Latitude 7370 is hard-capped at 8GB RAM. Because they soldered it directly to the motherboard. Real "what the fuck" moment, and I am reminded every time of this constraint because opening a Slack call freezes my computer for about a minute if I commit the heinous crime of leaving my IDE open.

Soldered RAM is part of Microsoft's specification for Connected/Modern Standby, supposedly because it prevents some classes of cold reboot attack on disk encryption. The official line from the people who work on the standards (both at Intel and Microsoft) is "buy a laptop with the amount of RAM you need." I hate it too, but it's not like they're pointlessly screwing their customers.

Re: Ask HN: MacBooks seems to be the only viable option these days

#190

Post by mesozoic » Mon, Apr 18, 2022, 10:04 PM UTC

uniqueuid wrote: post #87

kmeisthax wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because every other computer manufacturer realized they can save on the BOM cost by shoving the whole computer under plastic gingerbread. That weight distribution? It'd cost way too much to redesign the product correctly. Flickering redraws? We don't make the OS, we just sell Microsoft's. Occasionally you do see PC OEMs that try for taste in the Windows ecosystem. Sony did that with their VAIO laptops, with the somew…

All true, but why is the culture and aesthetic of computers inherently trashy? Look at all the fields where superior quality is a completely natural criterion (whether it exists may be another question): Watches, cars, pens, paper notebooks, furniture, fashion, jewellery, architecture, bikes, coffee machines ... What's more - if you look at the visual representations of computers - i.e. marketing material, art, illus…

As long as they're made to be disposable there's an upper limit. No one would buy a macbook for 50k knowing they'll be able to use it their whole life then resell it likely for a profit but they would a Rolex.