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Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

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181–190 of 309 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#181
post #51

> lost access to paid services that I had set up with social login I signed up to Quora with my Facebook account, back in the day. Deleted Facebook in 2013 and lost access to my Quora account, with no possible way to recover it. I haven't used a social login since. In my case, it was fairly harmless, but it made me realise how dangerous social login is. Every time there's a signup, I look for "signup with email". It'…

There really needs to be a zero cost custom-domain email hosting solution. I'd love to have webmail on my own domain, hosted by someone else, and with ads on the side. Those ads should generate ~$20 per user per year (after all, they can be targeted based on emails I'm sending and receiving, and I'll be looking at them many minutes every day - the perfect combination for high revenue ads). With $20/user/year, there s…

> There really needs to be a zero cost custom-domain email hosting solution.

Unfortunately I doubt that would work. Any email solution hoping to get significant use will need to be able to send as well as receive and/or store & organise, because if someone is needing to run their own send route elsewhere they'll run their own receive route there too, and any free email solution that allows sending will be abused in any way possible by junk mailers and other scammy types.

It would be a constant fight to keep the service off black-lists and dealing with the backlash from:

* people blocked rightly because of service abuse

* people blocked because of a false positive in what-ever automated checks you do (the admin involved in doing all the checks manually will be excessive enough that it can't all be done manually)

* those who are inconvenienced by the service, even temporarily, being on a blacklist

And that mass of spammers such a service will attract will be worthless: they'll have everything quickly automated and won't even glance at a single one of the adverts.

> With $20/user/year, there should be no difficulty paying the hosting costs

I doubt $20/user/year would cover it unless you get a decent number of subscribers. And I doubt there would be enough people who would sign up for this, who are not already using gmail or similar big providers that already exist or mail provision included with their web hosting or domain registration service.

Of course my gut reaction could be quite wrong here: why don't you give it a go? If you are right then there is a market to corner that no one else is looking at yet so you could make it big.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#182
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a bad deal, but it's not a scam. The say they'll give you webmail and they give you webmail.

It might be at the individual level, but the scale completely changes the nature of the deal, in my opinion.

How so?

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#183
post #16

In sensible jurisdictions, a tenant cannot be kicked out for non-payment of rent without a court order. That's right, a debtor who owes money to another cannot be booted without an independent government body approving it. So it's not inherently wrong to say a user of a free service should have some rights. In some situations, it's not fair to pull the rug out under people. I think that there will come a point where…

In France, it is the case but strangely what we hear and read on the news is often the case of homeowners being unable to access their homes[1] or having tenants not pay their rent and not being kicked out[2].

Either way people will use the system to their advantage.

[1]: https://www.bfmtv.com/immobilier/un-proprietaire-dont-le-log....

[2]: https://www.ladepeche.fr/2021/11/12/temoignages-loyers-impay...

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#184
> The google stack is very convenient, and it's 2022, I'm not going to start hosting my email server, but I'm in need of a foolproof and long lasting solution to online identity. And I've started by purchasing a domain name for 10 years and having a 'catch all and forward to gmail' rule setup. So I can just forward it all to somewhere else in case I lose my gmail again. But what if I get reported on my domain name? What if that gets suspended or blacklisted too?

I imagine that's less likely to happen? Otherwise I'm on the same boat :D

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really needs to be a zero cost custom-domain email hosting solution. I'd love to have webmail on my own domain, hosted by someone else, and with ads on the side. Those ads should generate ~$20 per user per year (after all, they can be targeted based on emails I'm sending and receiving, and I'll be looking at them many minutes every day - the perfect combination for high revenue ads). With $20/user/year, there s…

Why can't you just go around selling your data to the highest bidders and use the money to pay for the myriad of already-existing hosting providers? I'll tell you why: because you are not worth that much to advertisers. If you are so cheap to the point of asking to get your data harvested, chances are you never going to be a high-value customer.

> If you are so cheap to the point of asking to get your data harvested, chances are you never going to be a high-value customer.

But if you are so dumb as to not know your data us harvested, you are a great gullible idiot, er, I mean customer.

I don't think logic holds any water. There is no rational 'free market' reason you can't sell your data, it's just logistically too difficult to deal with millions of individual 'sellers' istead of paying $supplier to get all of it at once.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#186
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use mail forwarders on my custom domain so anything sent to me@mydomain.co is simply forwarded to myregular@gmail.com. Except the domain renewal fees, it's free. If Gmail blocks me, I can readdress the forwarding to hotmail or usa.net or whatever.

That works but to cover your bases you need some sort of regular IMAP backup as well.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#187
I also lost access to a previous gmail account - I changed my password with a random generated one, and god (and a google engineer) knows why, I lost access. No amount of appealing would return my access, even if I was wiling to show my national ID card and stuff.

Anyway. About your plan with the email server. We ran such a thing for an organisation in Romania. You'll be surprised how many times our emails ended up in Gmail's spam folders (other providers too, but gmail runs an especially harsh algorithm for spam filtering), even though we had DKIM, SPF and all that jazz setup. You will most likely be locked out of most people's reach, unless you use one of the largest providers. So maybe government regulation is the only realistic way out.

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social logins only carry your information and a token, and you can enter to your profile and add a password too (99% of the time). So, you can use social login (OpenID Connect in reailty), as an automated form filler and add your password, so your account will be effectively won't depend on that provider anymore. I use a lot of services like that.

>> Social logins only carry your information and a token, and you can enter to your profile and add a password too (99% of the time). I think the whole point is not having to create yet another password. One solution to all of this is to have some kind of durable identity verification that the user controls and can use everywhere. There are serious challenges with that of course, which is why we don't have it yet.

I use a durable identity verification that I control and can use anywhere (within reason): a standard offline password manager (keepass) synced via dropbox. I create "yet another password", but I never see it or directly interact with it (outside of tweaking the password generator to fulfil weird password requirements)

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#189
post #51

> lost access to paid services that I had set up with social login I signed up to Quora with my Facebook account, back in the day. Deleted Facebook in 2013 and lost access to my Quora account, with no possible way to recover it. I haven't used a social login since. In my case, it was fairly harmless, but it made me realise how dangerous social login is. Every time there's a signup, I look for "signup with email". It'…

There really needs to be a zero cost custom-domain email hosting solution. I'd love to have webmail on my own domain, hosted by someone else, and with ads on the side. Those ads should generate ~$20 per user per year (after all, they can be targeted based on emails I'm sending and receiving, and I'll be looking at them many minutes every day - the perfect combination for high revenue ads). With $20/user/year, there s…

Sounds like a startup opportunity you should jump on. ;)

Re: Ask HN: Should we own the free stuff we pay for?

#190
post #81
post #30

When you put it this way, it's really quite remarkable how tenuous our hold is on even paid for digital services. There is really nothing you could do with a car to prompt the car maker to take it from you. And the state will only take it if you break the law in particularly dangerous ways. When it comes to other possessions it's even harder for anyone to take them away from you. If I take a kitchen knife and stab so…

Cars are also digital service platforms which can and do take away things. I am currently playing a safety score minigame to unlock enhanced driving features. If I pay $2000 my software will enable my minivan to have a 0-60 of a Ferrari. This is all premised upon a connectivity package I'm obligated to pay for but have been gifted for a year by the manufacturer. To put it more bluntly, my eyeballs are watched by AI t…

You got a model X?
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