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Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

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Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#181

Post by 1991g »

J-dawg wrote: post #57

I'm a pretty useless developer who does about the same amount of real work as you per week. I also often don't understand the technical details other developers discuss in meetings. I am generally quite open about my lack of aptitude, as I result I've never really been promoted, I've just bounced around between different junior roles. It always seems obvious that I'm the most junior member of any team I'm on, but I'm…

> I also often don't understand the technical details other developers discuss in meetings.

I often worry about this, but unless you're at the Staff+ level, I think the chances of you knowing the intricate details of ~other~ peoples' work is low. And that's probably not a problem.

> makes me wish I'd tried a bit harder at bullshitting.

Honestly, I'd highly encourage it (a little). Being able to market yourself and your skills is very valuable.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#182

Post by notreallyserio »

pydry wrote: post #75
syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

Large companies have a tendency to throw up all sorts of impediments to actually getting shit done. Simple tasks can take 3 weeks because there are 7-9 dependencies throwing sand in the gears. This not only provides plenty of cover for not getting stuff done it also saps the motivation to get it done quickly. Like, if X team sits on your request for a week that prevents Y feature from getting out are you really gonna…

I see this regularly at small companies, too. They add process they think is necessary but don't have the human resources necessary to ensure these don't become blockers.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#183

Post by somerando7 »

I wonder if some people on my team even work 1-2 hours a day honestly.

What I've found for myself is this greatly demotivates me. Why am I putting in 6-8 hours of pure coding a day when I see the guy next to me doing 1 hour of work and getting payed 2x as much?

I legit have an ic7 on a sister team that has made 40 diffs in the past 2 years, I don't think a single one has been > 50 LoC and it was mostly config changes. Crazy world we live in.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#184

Post by cogman10 »

cj wrote: post #175
cattown wrote: post #132

I've been a software engineer and managed software engineers for 20 years and worked in all kinds of businesses. This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Doing just as much work as your employer requires and no more is way less of a problem than employees who actively steal, commit fraud, bring drama and distract other team members, or are introducing defects because they've faked their…

> This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Perhaps at large companies? I would hope people applying to jobs at small 5-20 person startups aren't bullshitting and lying about the work they do. Or to reword the same sentiment, I hope people looking for the easiest possible path target their job search at companies with lots of bureaucracy where people not doing your job is more easily tole…

The 5->10 hours a week is definitely on the extreme end of laziness.

However, I do think if you are doing the full 40+ hours only working you are likely heading towards burnout. IMO, 5->6 hours of work in an 8 hour work day is both normal and acceptable to keep people from burning out and ultimately dropping to the 5->10 hour a week range.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#185

Post by a-dub »

pydry wrote: post #75
syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

Large companies have a tendency to throw up all sorts of impediments to actually getting shit done. Simple tasks can take 3 weeks because there are 7-9 dependencies throwing sand in the gears. This not only provides plenty of cover for not getting stuff done it also saps the motivation to get it done quickly. Like, if X team sits on your request for a week that prevents Y feature from getting out are you really gonna…

> Large companies have a tendency to throw up all sorts of impediments to actually getting shit done.

early in my career i once worked for a spinoff of a very large tech company and was involved in a collaboration with the mothership, so to speak.

my boss pulled me aside and explained to me. "here's how this goes. time here does not work like time there does. what happens in one day here takes two weeks there, and if there's anything missing when you ask them for something, that two week timer will reset. so make sure when you communicate with them, you send them absolutely everything they need and then some. then be prepared to wait. for a long, long time. they will either cancel or eventually deliver something. whether the thing they deliver is relevant remains to be seen, but be prepared for it not to be. if this starts sapping your time and energy, bring it back to me."

he was absolutely right.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#186

Post by sjtindell »

julianlam wrote: post #124
notJim wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... In fact, this is so common that I can name the exact people at several jobs I've had. And I could mention them to my coworkers and they'd know exactly what these people's reputation are. Our feeling toward them is a mix of being impressed and being embarrassed. Impressed because there's something to be said for someone who works the system to their adv…

I could be completely wrong on this, but I think there's a bit of positive punishment at work. If you do something quickly, and it is of high quality, it will probably get noticed, and your reward in addition to a sense of satisfaction, is more work. The satisfaction high won't override the punishment of more work, although salary will. However, salaried employees don't get paid more to do more work (bonus notwithsta…

Yeah this was a huge revelation to me. Spend months of long days to complete a record milestone for the company with hundreds of people involved…get a couple celebration dinners and it’s immediately into meetings to scope out the next months long, record milestone. Corporations will continuously push you, they never run out of work to do, and the better their documentation the more disposable you are (although they’ll never realize it). If you’re in the mood, fine. But it’s not a lack of motivation if you’re not…it’s being realistic and having self worth. Milestones and the share price and the late night meetings are a fun game if you have an interest and spare time, not something intrinsically great and motivating.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#187

Post by yodsanklai »

Probably this varies greatly between teams and companies. My situation was similar to yours at my previous job. But I've just joined a big tech company, and I've been working a lot. My coworkers are very skilled, and super productive. Considering the amount of code review, PR, oncalls, user support, there's noway they are slacking, even if they are 10x developer.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#188

Post by amelius »

syspec wrote: post #55

> Do people regularly run into coworkers like me during their career and simply ignore it because they find it too awkward to criticize them? Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me... They find a way to make any task take forever... If it was a smaller company they would be called out, but at my [very, very] large company - its very hard to get f…

> Yes exactly this, especially at larger companies. I know a few of those developers, and they sit right near me...

I find it a somewhat comforting thought ... if I ever get overworked then I can always become one of those guys ...

Maybe that's why nobody ever calls them out.

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#189

Post by [deleted] »

cj wrote: post #175
cattown wrote: post #132

I've been a software engineer and managed software engineers for 20 years and worked in all kinds of businesses. This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Doing just as much work as your employer requires and no more is way less of a problem than employees who actively steal, commit fraud, bring drama and distract other team members, or are introducing defects because they've faked their…

> This is both normal and mostly acceptable, in my professional opinion. Perhaps at large companies? I would hope people applying to jobs at small 5-20 person startups aren't bullshitting and lying about the work they do. Or to reword the same sentiment, I hope people looking for the easiest possible path target their job search at companies with lots of bureaucracy where people not doing your job is more easily tole…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Are most of us developers lying about how much work we do?

#190

Post by xapata »

sq_ wrote: post #120
oceanghost wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the best ideas I've had in my career were in the shower before work. The problem is making that a regular occurrence.

For me it's often in the shower after work. Which is a pain because then I've gotta remember them until I get out and then find a way to remember them until the next day.

A speech to text device in the bathroom helps. Sometimes I worry I'll forget by the time I'm done showering.
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