No-code is definitely useful today for certain specific use cases, especially to create apps that collect data, store it in a database, and report to the client the results of some analysis of that data.
Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
181–190 of 404 posts
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#182I've been working in the development space since 2015 and recently joined fast-growth no-code startup (https://welovenocode.com). We just raised $1M and achived $150K MRR. Happy to share my opinion based on my experience of leading "code" and "no code" startup.
No-code is basically the art of creating solutions (native apps, websites, web apps), which could have been written with code but instead using visual methods (without coding). Most no-code tools use a visual drag-and-drop interface. A lot of them have pre-built templates that you can customize. There is also a slight difference between "low-code" and "no code".
With "low code" a lot of things can be done with a drag-and-drop interface, however, some coding is required to for a finished product. So you ANYWAY need some background in coding. This is typically great for people with intermediate technical skill.
What can be built with no-code?
Mobile apps, web apps, websites, workflow and automations, marketing tools, payment systems, and the list goes on. Basically, "typical" products & MVPs benefit the most from no code. So founder can built something in weeks, really fast. For example, WeLoveNoCode (https://welovenocode.com) connects founders with the best no-code developers to build their software and apps without a single line of code in like 10 days. All that is based on a monthly subscription.
Why all the hype?
Well, ho code has A LOT of the advantages:
- will save you money
- You can build and test your ideas quickly
- Anyone can use it > Designers, product managers, marketing managers now have the ability to make their ideas tangible products.
What are the challenges you may face?
Just like new thing, tools have to be learnt and they all have their learning curves. However, it will take you much less time and resources learning how to use no-code tools. Unlike low-code tools, no-code tools have a limit to how much they can be customised. If you want to change every aspect of your product or want to build very complex products, no-code tools may bring some limitation. However, there’s so much innovation and growth with these tools so I expect these barriers to reduces in a few months.
I should add that there’s no limitation with scalability. No-code tools have the capacity for serve increase to allow as many users as possible without breaking. These tools are also very secured.
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Things we agree on: ignore everything no-code proponents say about their tools or capabilities Things we disagree on: code before no code My experience has been that actual code is always superior* to no-code, because no-code is always more complex. E.g. the no-code developer environment + code (in whatever designer form) + interpreter / runtime / libraries + any integrations + actual generated code. Consequently, bu…
I suspect you are talking at cross purposes. You are suggesting no-code first on a micro timescale. For prototyping. That seems like a solid suggestion and use of resources. But from the GP, I read a statement on the macro scale. No-code can't codify turn-key pluggable building blocks until the problem spaces of those blocks have been thoroughly explored by code solutions, and a small number of "winning" configuratio…
We have a different definition of no-code, I think. I wasn't including any tools that don't offer generic enough primitives to build an arbitrary business process.
If we're reducing no-code to "things that have been written in code first, that can then be plugged together by the no-code user", then we're talking about libraries with a visual designer on top.
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#184This is an imperfect analogy, but consider for a moment the role Microsoft Excel plays. Excel allows non-coders to do many useful things, and provides a relatively gentle on-ramp to actual code via formulas. If you take that on-ramp and keep going, towards VBA and add-ins and other pieces of Microsoft technology, you might wind up becoming a full-time software developer, leaving Excel behind and using “real” tools. N…
> Excel allows non-coders to do many useful things I heard a great quip at some point: "Why is Excel the most useful IDE?" Answer: "Because it's the one IDE every business allows every user to access." Most of us here have forgotten that many businesses flat out ban access to programming tools for the majority of users. And what is an enterprising user to do, when they realize they're performing the same process 100…
Some years ago someone posted here on HN an excel extension that turned excel into an actual IDE.
While it’s true for a lot of people is the only choice, there’s also an amazing amount of enterprising users that sadly don’t know any better!
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#185I am an engineer with 20+ years of hands on keyboard, I've got projects that are now part of Apache, 1000's of stars on github. I've been CTO at a number of startups that have got significant funding. My point is to establish some credibility. I probably still suck. Having said that, I have been working with Microsoft PowerAutomate for the past 1.5 years and while it has saved a lot of time and been overall a good ex…
I’ve had a different experience with PowerAutomate. Both as a no-coder and a user. As a user the UX is horrible and I’m now swamped with terrible “apps” or “workflows” that people try to get me to use and fail for arcane reasons. Or are just ugly or brittle. As a no-coder the tools are hit or miss, the docs are bad, and widgets frequently don’t work due to my licensing and there’s no way to know other than to try and…
It has such promise as the shell scripting equivalent for the cloud what shell was to PCs.
What ever happened to Yahoo Pipes?
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#186This is an imperfect analogy, but consider for a moment the role Microsoft Excel plays. Excel allows non-coders to do many useful things, and provides a relatively gentle on-ramp to actual code via formulas. If you take that on-ramp and keep going, towards VBA and add-ins and other pieces of Microsoft technology, you might wind up becoming a full-time software developer, leaving Excel behind and using “real” tools. N…
> Excel allows non-coders to do many useful things I heard a great quip at some point: "Why is Excel the most useful IDE?" Answer: "Because it's the one IDE every business allows every user to access." Most of us here have forgotten that many businesses flat out ban access to programming tools for the majority of users. And what is an enterprising user to do, when they realize they're performing the same process 100…
> Most of us here have forgotten that many businesses flat out ban access to programming tools for the majority of users.
That sounds... counter productive to say the least.
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's unrealistic to expect a full, productive, desktop experience on any smaller devices. Giving up on the desktop is a huge step backwards.
On the other hand, the market has expanded beyond economies where users have the space, power and physical safety to actually own a desktop. For some people their first, last and only "PC" is their smartphone. Your choice then becomes embracing those users or not having those users at all.
"One size fits all" fits no one.
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#188It's in the same class of ideas as perpetual motion machines.
In that case, it violates laws of thermodynamics, in the "no code" case, it violates Information Theory.
The entire process of coding is about translating requirements into machine executable programs. The requirements cannot be condensed below a certain threshold and that's where the 'no code' promise fails. You can move around blocks of shapes but in the end they must represent the same amount of information and it just resembles code.
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Things we agree on: ignore everything no-code proponents say about their tools or capabilities Things we disagree on: code before no code My experience has been that actual code is always superior* to no-code, because no-code is always more complex. E.g. the no-code developer environment + code (in whatever designer form) + interpreter / runtime / libraries + any integrations + actual generated code. Consequently, bu…
I used to think this as well, that No Code was not a real development to production level option. I have very much been proven wrong. I transition recently from 15+ years as a developer to contracting for a no code platform. Virtually everything a regular web dev can do in code can be done in no code. Sometimes its easier to do in code and sometimes it is much easier to do in no code so mileage may vary but no code i…
I've been consulting in no-code platforms, in addition to writing actual code, for about 8 years. Producing something that works isn't the problem.
Maintaining it is.
The legacy codebases from this stuff are dumpster fires, because most of the tools are closed enough ecosystems that the companies supporting them have to reinvent every programming best practice from the last 30 years.
'Version control? Sure, that's a feature on our roadmap that we'll get to at some point...'
In addition to going back to the bad old days of limited-use, proprietary compiler problems. 'Oh, that bug? Yeah, just don't do that.'
Furthermore, unless you choose very carefully, you're playing right into vendor lock-in, and a lot of the people buying this stuff aren't technically proficient enough to realize that.
Once these companies hit the end of the easy growth ramp, and the industry turns into monetizing & squeezing existing customers, there's going to be migration pain on an Oracle scale.
Re: Ask HN: What do you think about the no-code movement?
#190It's interesting, but always calibrate their claims against the fact this is about the tenth time this movement has come around. This movement literally goes back to COBOL. That is not a typo. It's not only likely older than you are, but probably much older than you are. I recognize COBOL may not seem like "no-code", but that's just because "no-code" is a stupid label. "No-code" doesn't mean "no code" just like "serv…
I can say from our experience: we made more that 2000+ no code projects so far and it really required some customization, some coding and technical understanding from "no code developers".
No code operates together WITH normal developers. At WeLoveNoCode (https://welovenocode.com/) we have mix of no coders who knows design, no code tools but also can dive into code. So it's not like isolated function, no code is an instrument to build something faster with visual editors. Agree?
Also, why see no code as a "competitor" or something completely different? Wix or WordPress was around for a while and only until recently "every" tools decided to call themselves as "no code" :) I mean, it was there for a long time already...