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Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

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Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#181
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That puts a double burden on infrastructure. Every car trip becomes 2 trips - one to your house, then one to your destination. It's hard to imagine that winning over car ownership, without some other powerful force involved.

That car can be Smart-sized: half as long. But imagine no parking space would be needed anymore.

Roads are still roads though. And they get pretty full now. Imagine rush hour with twice the traffic.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#182

Consider the question a fashion vs function question. We've seen this in multiple industries, even the current automobile industry, and I suspect this will continue. I'm surprised how many people don't realize that a VW Passat is a dressed down Audi (A/S/RS)6 is dressed up as Porsche Panamera. Why do people spend hundreds of dollars on a brand of jeans, when they can buy levi's for 50 bucks (or other brands even chea…

That's called badge engineering and the brands Lexus, Acura, and Infinity were created for the purpose of selling previously cheaper Japanese cars up market. If consumers were more astute they wouldn't even exist.

This is why economic models based on high-information, rational consumers fall short. You and I may put more thought into purchasing a vehicle, but cars have been sold because it was featured in a movie or a myriad of other reasons we might consider superficial.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#183
post #179

What about new form factors? I'm still waiting for the enclosed two-wheeled self-balancing motorcycle. https://siamagazin.com/a-self-balancing-two-wheeled-motorcyc...

I am surprised we haven't seen more two seater vehicles - and I don't mean roadster sports cars.

The most common use case for cars for many (most?) people is driving alone or with just one passenger. Back seat is often treated as misc. cargo space.

Something like the old BMW Z3 Coupe (AKA "The Clown Shoe"). Essentially a two seater hatchback.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#184

I think it will be more of the same. Cars are already mostly sold on image. Image is the main differentiator already. Here is what I think most people think about when buying a car: will be affordable (if you are not wealthy), the type of car (SVU, minivan, cross over, sedan, etc.), performance oriented (Mazda Zoom Zoom, or a Shelby, Mustang), whether it is ultra green/granola (Prius), Luxury (Audi, BMW, Lexus), or w…

Even amongst cars that are very similar, image is a huge factor IMHO.

Even if someone is cross-shopping between several generic midsized family sedans (a genre that is arguably the epitome of "cars-as-a-generic-transportation-appliance"), other than significant price differences, people will probably choose the model that looks best to them.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#185

Consider the question a fashion vs function question. We've seen this in multiple industries, even the current automobile industry, and I suspect this will continue. I'm surprised how many people don't realize that a VW Passat is a dressed down Audi (A/S/RS)6 is dressed up as Porsche Panamera. Why do people spend hundreds of dollars on a brand of jeans, when they can buy levi's for 50 bucks (or other brands even chea…

That's called badge engineering and the brands Lexus, Acura, and Infinity were created for the purpose of selling previously cheaper Japanese cars up market. If consumers were more astute they wouldn't even exist. This is why economic models based on high-information, rational consumers fall short. You and I may put more thought into purchasing a vehicle, but cars have been sold because it was featured in a movie or…

I'm not denying that I purchased my car on many superficial measurements.

Re: Badge engineering, it's called that in automotive circles, but I'm not sure about other industries. The point I was trying to make is that this isn't specific to cars.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#186
post #52

The lack of differentiation between two EV brands will not be the major disruption to the car industry. It will be the ownership. In 3 to 5 years we should see autonomous vehicles that are offered by robot taxi networks. The same car can offer transport services to 5 families or more and still each family will be able to use the car to similar levels they are currently used to. Customers will no longer have to worry…

> In 3 to 5 years we should see autonomous vehicles I've heard this before... ah yes. Five years ago[0]. Now, I'm not saying this won't happen. But predicting timelines on something that does not yet exist is tricky. More to your point though... right now a lot of people value having "their" car despite all the drawbacks you listed. It can certainly vary (i.e. city vs suburbs vs rural) but people like just leaving st…

Slight tangent, but I've noticed there are two types of Tesla fans. They intersect somewhat, but also have big areas of disagreement.

The first are car enthusiasts. They like the cars Tesla is producing.

The second are robotaxi/FSD evangelists. They want Tesla to spearhead the movement of ultimately eliminating (or significantly reducing) car ownership in favor of the robotaxi network. In fact, some of them even want Tesla to stop selling cars to the general public in favor of retaining them for the robotaxi fleet.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#187
post #11

Just a little side rant on “soul” since you mentioned it in a negative sense for EVs. The “soul” term is marketing BS like the soul patch mustang logo Ford decided to sticker on to the chin of its EV. If you ever see one, look at the front. It’s totally got a soul patch. Eww. As far as engine noise or rumble and that wonderful visceral feeling of the pistons and crankshaft throwing their weight around, I would agree…

You're completely wrong on this one. You chalk a vehicle's engine-as-soul up to marketing, even though it's something that can be felt without knowing anything about the vehicle or its history. Yet you think some backstory about how it's made defines it's soul? That screams marketing. Half of the mass produced things I buy have a blurb about the backstory and passion that the founders had on the box. I've had motorcy…

> I've had motorcycle engines with the following configurations (among many others): - 200cc single cylinder - 250cc single cylinder - 650cc single cylinder - 250cc two-stroke single - 500cc two-stroke single - 300cc parallel twin - 800cc parallel twin - 650cc v-twin - 1200cc opposed twin - 900cc inline triple - 650cc inline four - 1000c inline four

But have you had one with FOUR TURBOS?

https://youtu.be/NeaxbS1mNPw

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#188
post #99

I wish I could say I'll choose an electric car that is built on FOSS so I can actually have the source code to the thing I own. I don't see that being terribly likely, but the next best thing would be one with software that isn't openly hostile to me. I don't want my car phoning home or being updated without my permission. I don't want my car lying to me, hiding, or refusing to disclose the status of sensors. I don't…

That's one of the reasons I'm working on an EV conversion right now; I can choose whatever motor/controller/charger/battery/battery management system I like as long as they're basically compatible, and each part just does what it needs to do. There's nothing that phones home, and no reason to have anything like that.

I'd prefer fully open-source hardware/software, and there are projects in that direction, but I'm also okay with using proprietary black boxes that each do their job and can be configured by the end user and can be replaced by an equivalent component from any of a variety of vendors.

Doing a conversion is obviously a lot of work and not for everyone. I wish there was an easier way to get an easily customizable car. There is at least a fair bit of knowledge now about how Tesla and Leaf components work, to the point that people are swapping Leaf motors and Tesla drive units and used battery modules into conversion cars and getting it to work.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#189
I hope the distinctions will be of short term relevance. Car ownership and usage seems very inefficient. Think of how many hours one is actually used compared to the material and space it takes up. Dense cities should continue increasing transportation infrastructure (roads, autonomous vehicles, bikeways, and walkways) both in scale and quality so that everyone uses it by default. Then these distinctions matter as much as what brand/model of train I take.

Re: Ask HN: What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superchargers are rarer than gas stations but plentiful enough (in the US) for long trips if you mostly stick to interstates. Non-Tesla networks are also rapidly increasing in number. Also you cannot refuel your ICE car at home or at your hotel while you sleep. This is a huge benefit to EVs that makes ICE range comparisons hard to quantify in simplistic terms.

The problem is I don't always stick to interstates. Even when I am on an interstate, there is a big difference between being able to stop every 20 miles and every 200 miles. The first means I sometimes refuel because we are at half a tank and someone needs a bathroom, while the later forces me to stop like it or not when I get to a charger. Refueling at home is nice for when I'm home - 95% of the time. That last 5% i…

presumably as more people buy electric cars (teslas), they will have to add more chargers to their network. I just drove from 5K miles down the east coast and back through middle of america in a M3 and i can attest it is very easy to filter out hotels that have chargers, and a lot more hotels have tesla chargers than I thought. I only paid $37 from NYC -> Jacksonville (via PA) because of hotel chargers.
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