Ask HN: Is abuse from supervisors as common in industry as in academia?

Agreed.

I think of my PhD students as my primary "product" I am creating as a professor. Not to say I don't think that teaching is valuable, but I'm by far proudest of my PhD students who graduate and go on to have fantastic careers. That said, I'm proud, but also sad, and worried because once they become good they leave. I let them depart once they have met our agreed upon goals, which are pretty much the bare minimum for being competitive for research-oriented jobs in industry (not "just a coder," but designing and doing independent research).

Some advisors abuse emotionally. But everything is swept under the rug and administrators only care about results and no major complaints.

Haven't seen this yet. I was a student, but I never got abused there. However... I was beaten by other kids, and bullied by a teacher before I was 12 or so... I've also bullied and beaten other kids, a long long time ago.

Today with what I experienced, I believe that we're still some kind of animal, and the predator in us reacts to weakness. Situations usually start small, the perpetrator tests the territory, and the victim usually doesn't say anything or is too surprised to set a boundary. At one point it will go to the next step and further escalation goes from there.

First off, came here after a fellow grad student directed me to this thread, but had to add a comment after reading all these comments.

I'm please to see that so many have had relatively positive grad school experiences. I am genuinely shocked, in fact. In my program (a life science program), the number of students who have less-than-stellar relationships, many of which verge on an abuse of the power dynamic, is astronomical. But, as pointed out by user @jpm_sd, the life sciences, in particular wet lab researchers, seem to find themselves frequently in this situation.

I could bore you with endless details of what that "abuse of power" looks like, since many have claimed OP is throwing around the term 'abuse' too freely, but from what I have learned about mental health, particularly during the last year, I would say that the following falls into the category of extreme disrespect verging on abuse (and I wish to validate that OP may have experienced this him/herself):

- advisor expecting students to be available for a meeting at any time of day (including calling at 23:00hrs to discuss report/grant/whatever) - advisor playing mind games via a divide-and-conquer strategy with other lab members, including gossiping and spreading 'hear say' stories - advisor with history of misogyny reported to HR, which you are only made aware of when you yourself end up in HR's office - advisor who doles out his responsibilities to graduate students and parades them as "learning opportunities", despite students being overworked and desperate to stay on top of their own research (see list by user @chriskanan - I have done all items save for # 5, 8 and 15 during my grad school tenure) - advisor who demands manuscripts prior to allowing students to write up and defend, but then never reads said manuscripts, sits on them for months to years, and then hands them over to incoming students as a 'easy first publication' upon joining the lab (à la "the student couldn't finish this before they left, so you get to finish it and get your first pub!")

And these are just a few of the many ways in which I have felt used or "abused" by my grad advisor - it is not an exhaustive list.

I have no idea how this happens, certainly I allowed some of these things to go on without addressing them early enough, but as anyone who knows that delicate advisor/student power dynamic, it is not always in your career's interest to take up these issues when you know it will come back to bite you in the form of retaliation.

My department is WELL aware of the toxicity of my advisor, and they have supported me (and other students) extensively... yet they too seem incapable of removing this academic bulldog from the department - and he doesn't even have tenure (not for lack of ability, it's a stipulation of the research institute we're in). Astoundingly, many of the newer professors regularly advise students against joining, but this is often shrugged off as "differences of personality" - certainly, I was warned, and yet here I am.

I hope that with what I have read and learned of industry via networking, I will find myself well-poised to handle what comes my way. It seems that for all the negative experiences I've had the misfortune of having, it has provided the professional growth needed to delicately but firmly address this type of behaviour in the future.

OP: I wish you the best. I am also #PhDone and hope you find some catharsis in this. Head down, chin up, you'll be out soon.

"Boring line of business development is a much more pleasant environment."

Yeah ... but only if you don't mind doing boring work in a boring team.

I mean, now that I have a family I can see the plus sides of that, too. But idealy my pleasant work environment is interesting and still not toxic.