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Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

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Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#181

Post by barking »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #175
barking wrote: post #174

To be myself in public. I still haven't learned. I had an uncle who was like that. He didn't give a shit what anyone thought, he was such fun to be around even if it embarrassed the hell out of you sometimes.

Alternatively, it is possible to be yourself while still caring a great deal about what other people think, but not letting it influence your behaviour. Only your emotions. I think “not caring what others think” gets too much credit, honestly. It’s fine to care, because that also brings joy, for example I bet your uncle was damn proud that you liked him so much for whom he was :) that only works if you care. Which I’…

Thank you, yes he definitely had people he cared about and I was lucky enough to one.

but not letting it influence your behaviour. Only your emotions

That sounds really really hard!

Allowing yourself to be vulnerable in public is a laudable skill.

Absolutely, it requires a lot of courage imo.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#182

Post by dougmwne »

tayo42 wrote: post #35
Clubber wrote: post #3

Don't be an asshole. I can't stress this one enough. I don't care how smart you are, if you are an asshole, your career is not gonna work out. Try really hard not to be negative, even when there is reason to be. Try not to be openly negative about the company or a particular employee. It's poison for you and your teammates and makes you feel worse. Don't get defensive when someone makes suggestions to your code (I st…

> The people you work with are called colleagues, not friends. Sometimes it can hop over, but don't divulge personal information to a colleague that should only be shared amongst friends. This is disappointing. Offices are like high school without the fun parts. I think part of what bothers me about work in an office environment is the lack of being human or myself for so much of the day. That probably sounds more dr…

I've realized that friends can be more of a liability at work than a benifit. Most people know this and have mastered the art of being friendly while avoiding any deep emotional involvement. When I was younger I was hungry for that high school feeling too, but it's best to look for it in other places. Professionalism is the standard for a reason.

Some hypotheticals:

You make a friend at work. That friend gets fed up with their role and quits. Your morale takes a dive.

Friend at work starts to have performance issues. You get caught between supporting your friend or the team.

Friend at work is now your boss or is put in a position to manage or inspect your work.

Friend at work gets laid off.

You share some personal details with friend, personal details are then shared with others.

You office gossip with friend over drinks. It comes back to bite you.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#183

Post by isegrim »

capkutay wrote: post #86
eight_ender wrote: post #38

Admitting I'm wrong or that I screwed up, and likewise praising others when they're correct or have ideas I agree with. You would not believe how much smoother everything at work is when you learn to recognize early the signs that you're holding on to a bad opinion, or that you're headed towards a fuckup, and just saying it out loud. The praising / agreeing thing is a bit more complex. I've noticed more recently that…

This might sound strange but I wish I learned how to be more assertive and less apologetic/yielding. When I was in a 50/50 debate/discussions, in many cases I leaned towards myself being wrong and the other being right automatically...and later would feel discontent with everyone when I turned out I was right and should have pushed harder. But I guess dont know how to be assertive without being offensive or overly br…

Yet another variation on this important theme: do not be afraid to speak up when you see areas of waste around you.

You think this or that project is not solving the right problem? Speak up. You think some key result should be achievable with fewer people and sooner than what was planned? Speak up.

I learned this recently, sharing feedback that I was concerned would sound harsh, only to fall on receptive and understanding ears. If anything I should have spoken up sooner/more often!

Your team/startup/etc. will thank you.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#184

Post by playpause »

capkutay wrote: post #86
eight_ender wrote: post #38

Admitting I'm wrong or that I screwed up, and likewise praising others when they're correct or have ideas I agree with. You would not believe how much smoother everything at work is when you learn to recognize early the signs that you're holding on to a bad opinion, or that you're headed towards a fuckup, and just saying it out loud. The praising / agreeing thing is a bit more complex. I've noticed more recently that…

This might sound strange but I wish I learned how to be more assertive and less apologetic/yielding. When I was in a 50/50 debate/discussions, in many cases I leaned towards myself being wrong and the other being right automatically...and later would feel discontent with everyone when I turned out I was right and should have pushed harder. But I guess dont know how to be assertive without being offensive or overly br…

I think these two flaws actually go hand in hand, despite seeming opposed:

1. Avoiding acknowledging doubts or weaknesses in the position you're arguing for.

2. Allowing a decision to be finalised when you remain unconvinced.

These two behaviours have different outcomes if you take 'outcome' to mean 'who won the debate'. But they're both flawed and they both come from underconfidence.

Confident engineers care about finding the best consensus. They openly entertain doubts in their own position (and happily change their position in front of others), and they also persist with the discussion until they're genuinely satisfied with whatever consensus is reached.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#185

Post by dougmwne »

Fezzik wrote: post #22
Clubber wrote: post #3

Don't be an asshole. I can't stress this one enough. I don't care how smart you are, if you are an asshole, your career is not gonna work out. Try really hard not to be negative, even when there is reason to be. Try not to be openly negative about the company or a particular employee. It's poison for you and your teammates and makes you feel worse. Don't get defensive when someone makes suggestions to your code (I st…

Keeping behavior professional/separating colleagues and friends is on the top of my list these days. I have recently had numerous conversations with younger attorneys in my firm about this - they think “oh, our managing attorneys are great, we can be open books with them! We can talk freely about our massive hangovers and romantic dalliances...” and I try to explain how much things are exaggerated and gossiped about.…

I think also you have to be aware of people's incentives. This isn't a sailing club. If someone gets some inside information about you or your work, that can be used as ammo during political battles. A lot of the office "friends" are fishing for informational arbitrage. And even a fish can keep out of trouble if it keeps it's mouth shut.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#186

Post by f00zz »

Spoken English, it's not my first language and communication is a struggle. This wasn't much of a hindrance on my career as I've mostly worked within my country and can read technical English just fine, but now that I'm working remotely for a foreign company I'm kicking myself for not having paid more attention to it earlier in my life. I'm a disaster at conference calls.

Lately I've been extracting audio from YouTube videos and shadowing, this helps. Spoken fluency is mostly muscle memory, I think.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#187

Post by trabant00 »

capkutay wrote: post #86
eight_ender wrote: post #38

Admitting I'm wrong or that I screwed up, and likewise praising others when they're correct or have ideas I agree with. You would not believe how much smoother everything at work is when you learn to recognize early the signs that you're holding on to a bad opinion, or that you're headed towards a fuckup, and just saying it out loud. The praising / agreeing thing is a bit more complex. I've noticed more recently that…

This might sound strange but I wish I learned how to be more assertive and less apologetic/yielding. When I was in a 50/50 debate/discussions, in many cases I leaned towards myself being wrong and the other being right automatically...and later would feel discontent with everyone when I turned out I was right and should have pushed harder. But I guess dont know how to be assertive without being offensive or overly br…

It obviously a case of needing a balanced approach. Your comment and the parent are for two initial and opposed problems.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#188

Post by throwaway848483 »

dougmwne wrote: post #167
teekert wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a colleague like that, he was diagnosed with Asperger. He genuinely wanted to be interested in others but wasn't... At least until we discussed bitcoin, or Isaac Arthur, or Scifi audio books with interesting concepts, or his body building diet... I think he just had little in common with the family people at work. I told him, most people have something you can learn from them and if not, just be polite and it's…

I think this is pretty spot and this is a telling quote from GP: >It's like you try to peel back a single layer of why people believe what they believe and there's nothing there. Oh, but there is something there. People are not paper shells, but if you perceive them that way then you reveal your own blindness. Most non-ASD people find the emotional and experiential lives of others to be endlessly fascinating. Talking…

There are different levels though. There is complexity and tremendous ingenuity at any levels. It's just that the greater the level difference between two people, the less the interaction is fruitful for the both of them.

Poverty might mean that a smart one may spend most of its brain power to make rent, instead of getting a PHD. Omnipresent marketing might have ingrained some ideas and dreams.

People tend to stay in their level as long as they find it entertaining. Which can be very long because when you do thing inefficiently you get to face new problems that you can once more treat inefficiently until you are crushed by an inextricable mess of superficial things.

Like you said people are pretty good at pettiness when noticing the attitude, and then close the door even further on sharing anything potentially interesting.

When you are more than a few levels above, it's your role to find the way to make the interaction between the two of you, meaningful, positive and interesting for the both of you. Very often it will require some attention to details.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#189

Post by wired8 »

lookathrwaway wrote: post #77
whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Throw away for obvious reasons. I find almost everyone intensely boring. How am I supposed to get along with people without feeling like a complete fraud? Small talk, feigning interest in kids, in sports, in wine, in whatever useless dull, pedestrian thing a coworker is into. I find that anyone who isn't a PhD (or could easily have been if they hadn't gone into industry) might as well be a paper shell. I can put on a…

You sound a lot like my father. In social situations he would rather sit in a corner and read his book. To him everyone else is boring, his words, not mine.

Re: Ask HN: What people skills do you wish you learned earlier in your career?

#190

Post by lelima »

whiddershins wrote: post #19

“How to win friends and influence people” is an absolutely wonderful book I wished I’d read 10 or 15 years before I did. Some important ideas - Just, get along with people. A bit reductionist but if you don’t place a high priority on getting along with people you certainly won’t learn how. It really is a habit, and it’s incredibly effective to remember the Cognitive Behavior insight that when you don’t get along with…

Totally agreed, what a great book, It has helping me so much!

"It may be fair to say that it’s impossible to win an argument." 10/10

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