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Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

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Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#181

Post by monort »

0x4f3759df wrote: post #21
fecak wrote: post #12

I'd hate to think that readers over 50 feel the need to consider leaving the tech workforce, and I know perhaps hundreds of successful engineers over 50. Those that have a hard time getting back in are often a victim of discrimination not truly based on age, but on stagnation. A 50 year old who has worked on five interesting diverse projects in the last 10 years will find work. A 50 year old who spent the last 20 yea…

A friend of mine is content maintaining a legacy VB app and has been at it since college -- about 20 years now. I hope he never gets laid off.

They will probably easily find another legacy VB app to maintain, it's like COBOL that never dies.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#182

Post by jonhendry18 »

zenpaul wrote: post #90

Ha, ha, ha, I just got laid off Monday along with most of the rest of the team with no notice. The market seems to be fairly hot here in Fairfield county CT so I'm jumping right back in and expect to pick up another job/contract in the next month. It's just a matter of rate and commute... It is tempting to just do my writing or something else but I love the work, it pays well and it's fairly expensive to live here. S…

What would you say are the most in-demand skills in CT?

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#183

Post by Chyzwar »

himom wrote: post #153
antonvs wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But an older stagnant person's skills tend to be much more out of date. Younger ones have the benefit that their skills are still likely to be relevant at a larger subset of the employer pool.

Your first sentence is a loaded, presumptive opinion that assumes age equals out-of-date without evidence. Younger ones can have all the latest Javascript library experience they want but they still don’t have enough obvious experience for engineering mastery that’s vital to being a highly-productive independent contributor or tech lead.

We know that, but employers are looking for React.js developers, not Software Engineer Architect. Whatever you like it or not you need to have a relevant tech on your CV.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#184

Post by jones1618 »

sheepmullet wrote: post #177
quickthrower2 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The businesses would pay $250-$350k/year if they had to. Extraordinary claim

What makes you think so? Do you think they would sooner cut off their nose to spite their face?

I've worked in tech for 30 years and never experienced a single company that does math the way you describe: "I.T. generates or saves us $X million per year therefore we'll share that with frontline developers." Ha, puhleez.

In my experience, you'd consider yourself lucky to work for a company that sees I.T. as a strategic/operational advantage (and not merely a "cost center") and therefore pays its staff 10% better than market average plus bonuses.

Unfortunately, I've worked for truly "I.T. forward" companies like that and still seen a merger or buyout completely flip the culture. Overnight I.T. salaries and budgets were seen as indulgences and people were laid off or quit in droves.

The one thing I've learned about this industry is that no matter how innovative or adept an engineering department is, an exuberantly stupid executive team can completely squander and destroy that asset surprisingly quickly.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#185

Post by coss »

coss wrote: post #71
fecak wrote: post #12

I'd hate to think that readers over 50 feel the need to consider leaving the tech workforce, and I know perhaps hundreds of successful engineers over 50. Those that have a hard time getting back in are often a victim of discrimination not truly based on age, but on stagnation. A 50 year old who has worked on five interesting diverse projects in the last 10 years will find work. A 50 year old who spent the last 20 yea…

It's weird at 30 I can't see myself making it another 20 years. I find programming draining and exhausting, but I still enjoy doing it :? I just don't think I'll just feel like I will have lost a lot of the fire when I'm that age.

edit: I feel like I will have lost a lot of the fire when I'm that age.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#186

Post by Latteland »

lproven wrote: post #161
wwweston wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those 3500 recipients could not have known that you're 41 A likely-accurate age estimate is easily discernible for applicants who follow the common practice of putting their education history with graduation dates. A much rougher estimate is also possible with nothing more than specific technologies. You can do pretty well with employment history as well -- and I'd suspect that many among hiring managers or HR staf…

Exactly so. I have tried most things. I removed all the dates from my CV. No difference; a minimally intelligent pimp can add up. Degree, that's 3y; 3y in this role, 2y in that role, 2 years there, 16y freelancing... This dude is old . So I removed the early junior jobs from my career history. Result, I got quizzed on how I walked straight into senior roles straight out of university. So I left out some gaps in the t…

It's terrible that you haven't gotten a job or any attention. I still think there's something on your resume that might be affecting this. I am in my early 50s and I had no problem getting my last job. But it might be because I have several degrees in CS and experience at leading companies. My resume does list the year I graduated from college and the time at the company's but I had thought of retracting that for my resume in case there was ageism but I didn't see that. I'm an engineer and not in it / support staff so maybe that's part of my advantage. I wish I could see your resume and then I could maybe offer some advice.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#187

Post by [deleted] »

southern_cross wrote: post #174
lproven wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't noticed any particular habits of numerical formatting or anything, but this might be US-specific. But I have done the pulling-magic-fixes-out-of-a-hat thing. It's fun. :-)

Yes, it was amazing (to those kids) the number of things that I could do for them just using basic commands like DIR and FIND and such under Windows. And when I started using Powershell for the more complex stuff, I got "Powershell? I think I'd heard of that." These were folks in their 20s and 30s, so you'd have thought maybe they would have been a little more on top of such things. But in reality if it wasn't "click…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#188

Post by Latteland »

lproven wrote: post #165
WillPostForFood wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In retrospect, do you think if instead of the 2000 applications you did in 2009, you had highly targeted maybe 1 position a week, with personalized letters, tweaked resume, and friendly follow up, you might have had success? 2009 was the worst year for employment I’ve ever seen, so maybe there truly were no options for you.

No, not really. For 2 reasons. [1] I only did broadcast/scattershot approach for the first year. After I got kicked off benefits the 2nd time (for attending a meeting of my startup -- an unpaid position -- in another part of the country) I stopped trying for anything I could do at all, anywhere, and started targeting my applications far more specifically, at things I was a really good fit for, with customised CVs etc…

Another idea: I don't see you talking about using your network of friends or LinkedIn. I get a lot of things from recruiters trying to get me to interview with them just based on my resume. And then I ask friends about working at the company they are in.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#189

Post by Latteland »

lproven wrote: post #166
brandall10 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I think it's because I was 41 when I started." Doubftul. I was 40 when I was looking a couple years back and had a better conversion rate of application -> interview than I've had in my entire life. This is for Rails/React work. I had 15 interviews out of maybe 25 or so applications, had a few opportunities I turned down and landed perhaps the best job I ever had. I'm beginning to look again at 42 and got 5 intervie…

Good for you. Seriously. It does seem to be better for programmers. I was primarily a support guy, but also systems admin, network architect/rollouts/installation, training, even project management and security consultancy at a push. We're regarded as far more fungible than coders. Coders make more money and if you are good in a niche, something popular, or something wildly obscure where it's hard to find people, the…

I think you've got it. There is more demand for programmers and you're right that companies don't find it is hard to hire people for it support jobs. That's a shame. If I was in your position I would consider trying to train as a programmer. But reading your other comments it seems like you've got it worked out and have transitioned into something new so good for you.

Re: Ask HN: Laid-off readers over 50, have you left the tech workforce?

#190

Post by Latteland »

matt_the_bass wrote: post #156
anocendi wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious. If what you described is a standard technique people can use, what prevents the recruiters/talent acquisition to, by default, discard resumes/CVs without exact dates?

As someone who hires, I like to see dates because I want someone that has a track history of sticking around for a while. I don’t want to waste effort on someone that has a history of changing jobs every year or two. Dates help show that.

When I started my career as a programmer it was a bad sign if people didn't stay 5 years at least at a company. But these days hardly anybody stays longer than 2 years unless they're being paid exceptionally well. So it's no longer a terrible sign if someone doesn't last more than 2 years. It can actually be a bad sign if you work at a big company for 10 years because you're probably out of date because you focused only on their tech stack .
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