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Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

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Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#181

Post by amiuba »

vanderreeah wrote: post #180
amiuba wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 100% sane assessment of his situation. Nothing could be a more accurate picture of most of our working lives than the OP's post To be fair, it is extremely hard to tell, even for me (OP). Sometimes I feel like I'm nuts because everyone else seems to get by and just deal with it. Am I so special or fragile that I can't just suck it up and do like everyone else? No matter what angle I look at it though, I don't see…

I can't comment on the sanity of adaptation - it may well be the most expedient reaction. But your original description of the relative economic positions of worker and employer, and of who accrues the most benefit from the energy expenditure of the worker (hint: it's not the worker), is just simple 20/20 clarity. Not even the most conservative economist could disagree with it. To adapt to this seems an act akin to S…

> But once you've seen what you've seen, you can't unsee it.

What do you do then?

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#183

Post by vanderreeah »

amiuba wrote: post #181
vanderreeah wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't comment on the sanity of adaptation - it may well be the most expedient reaction. But your original description of the relative economic positions of worker and employer, and of who accrues the most benefit from the energy expenditure of the worker (hint: it's not the worker), is just simple 20/20 clarity. Not even the most conservative economist could disagree with it. To adapt to this seems an act akin to S…

> But once you've seen what you've seen, you can't unsee it. What do you do then?

I do not know. But there are of course millions of people in our position. I suppose any possible solution can only come from the only strength we have, which is the knowledge of our shared, common situation.

EDIT: Jesus I sound pompous sometimes...

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#184

Post by bigmanwalter »

amiuba wrote: post #177
bigmanwalter wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I briefly considered FI/RE but like you said, couldn't handle eating shit for so long. Life is for living on your own terms.

Aiming for FI only means that you'll eat the same shit but for much less time (i.e. 10 years vs 40+ years)

Yes, exactly. But I can't postpone my dreams for so long. I still have my health and I should take advantage of it. Why should my body atrophy away in a chair throughout my 20's and 30's?

When the weather's nice and I'm stuck in my air conditioned office all week, only to be too busy on the weekends with errands to enjoy going out, week after week after week. That's not living.

With Freelancing, I'll need to do it for more years, but I can casually take weekdays off whenever I like and this year I took 8 full weeks of vacation. I don't know any full-time Software Engineers who are given that by their employers.

Beyond bringing in a modicum of control over my schedule, I find switching projects every few months keeps the job far more interesting. I'm learning more every day just as it was in my Junior days :)

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#185

Post by bigmanwalter »

arximboldi wrote: post #155
bigmanwalter wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I'm a freelance developer based in Montreal, Canada who is also incredibly interested in building out a freelancer/webdev co-op. Would love to hear more about your ideas and what direction you're interested in taking it :) Also, any tips on how to find clients at conferences? I've been to a few but never seem to meet anyone who's actually searching for a vendor. Most of my clients have come through my extended f…

Hi Eric! W.r.t. the co-op, at the moment my ideas (or fantasies) are more about organizational stuff than the content (what we would work on). I am just gathering ideas, learning and keeping my eyes open waiting for all this to crystalize... My motivation is to be able to work with other people in a democratic and (internally) non-capitalistic way. You are still playing in the market so there are lots of contradictio…

Thanks for the links!

I'm at a similar stage of gathering ideas. It seems that as software developers, we're at a unique point in history where an individual owning their own means of industrial-grade production is a possibility thanks to free software.

I come from a different angle as I was incredibly Liberal throughout my student years. But the working world shattered any illusions I had about achieving self-fulfillment as your typical software engineer.

You might be intrested in looking into Enspiral. They are a huge tech cooperative (~40 core members + ~100 associates) running out of New Zealand https://enspiral.com/ with some great ideas. They started out of individual freelancers grouping together to form an insurance fund and smooth out their incomes between contracts.

I've been thinking lately about how to initially build up a group's reputation and client pipeline. If you start with too many members without their own clients then I am not sure it would be sustainable. You could have initial capital investments from each member, but I'm less comfortable with that idea right now.

As for presenting, from time to time I will give web development workshops. I agree that presenting requires a disproportionate amount of time and energy but I find that it spices up my workload very nicely :)

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#186

Post by RickS »

vanderreeah wrote: post #175
RickS wrote: post #165

I'm late to this thread, but I hope you read this: If you go freelance, watch the fuck out. This post reads like you're depressed with the direction of your life, and are bucketing the causes into your workplace because it's intellectually easy to do. I don't mean that to be disparaging - I say it with authority because I do it too, and your post reads exactly like the monologue that runs through my head every day. I…

I know your comment is well-meaning, and the warning about the necessity of networking is sound, but I think you're projecting a little. It seems presumptuous to read irrationality (i.e. something unexamined in his psyche, which is what I take you to mean when you talk about seeing a professional) into what seems to me to be a 100% sane assessment of his situation. Nothing could be a more accurate picture of most of…

I never said it was irrational. I believe it's extraordinarily rational, if a bit narrowly scoped. I'm a big fan of depressive realism.

However, I also believe that this can be accurate of your life (let's be honest, it's accurate of 80%+ of people's lives) and yet not be a cause of constant misery. This seems to be the case for many people, who have much harder jobs than the average HN type and yet are quite happy. I think getting to that state is a route worth exploring.

Unexplored areas of the psyche and rational situational assessment are not at all mutually exclusive. They get along just fine.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#187

Post by nikdaheratik »

My work situation has been much less draining since moving to Australia. I think the biggest difference is that 6-12 month contract work is more common in tech jobs, and there are a lot more small companies where your contribution is bigger and feels more valued. The flip side to that is your work probably won't be seen outside of the small company unlike with huge corporations.

I don't know that they have the equivalent of casual/agency contract work for developers in the U.S. I think the health insurance makes it a problem, but I liked it better than working for bigger companies because there's less BS and you can just take a month or so between gigs if you want. You're never going to get rich though and there's always the possiblity of not having anything for longer than you want.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#188

Post by jogjayr »

amiuba wrote: post #111
jogjayr wrote: post #18

Look into the financial independence/retire early (FIRE) communities. Here's a good starting point. http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim... It's important to note that (Mustachian) financial independence isn't about making money so you can retire (despite the name). It's about designing a lifestyle for yourself that makes you happy without the need to buy things or experiences to sustain that…

FI/RE is a tremendous idea, and that's the thing that motivates me. I've been working on it for a few years now, but it's still far away. But it feels like it's not enough, I don't know that I can keep eating sh*t for another 7 years. We're saving about 55% of our net income after rent, we're pretty frugal to begin with in a high col area (not in the US). It's definitely part of the solution and I can't wait to quit…

Every job has its difficult days, but none has ever felt like "eating sh*t" (and I've also tried starting my own company). So I can't relate to that unfortunately.

If any job ever felt like it wasn't meeting my needs in some way (stability, financially, growth etc) I've moved on.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#189

Post by ikeyany »

vanderreeah wrote: post #183
amiuba wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But once you've seen what you've seen, you can't unsee it. What do you do then?

I do not know. But there are of course millions of people in our position. I suppose any possible solution can only come from the only strength we have, which is the knowledge of our shared, common situation. EDIT: Jesus I sound pompous sometimes...

Pompous perhaps but sensible. Please don't stop ranting.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#190

Post by pinchharmonic »

thirdworlds wrote: post #130

Remote work has been my saviour — infinite travel possibilities, disconnected from the 9–5 monotony, only need to fake enthusiasm for 5–60m a day max. Helps to see the position as purely a means to an end — pays the bills and allows for unbridled freedom.

How did you first take the jump to get into remote work?
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