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Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#181

Post by NetStrikeForce »

tomcam wrote: post #174
sigi45 wrote: post #55

I don't really care how much someone in USA earns. As a software engineere in germany you are earning good money. There are no killings in cities, affordable health care, high quality living standards, university costs 150$ for 6 month, no donald trump, 30 days real holiday (i take them, everyone does, every year), seldom over hours, parental leave. Btw. IT is more than google, apple, facebook and twitter. And no we…

> There are no killings in cities http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36882445

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/01/us/chicago-murders-2016/

This is what they are talking about; not terrorist attacks which are sporadic.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#182

Post by NetStrikeForce »

cinemaisdope wrote: post #131
SmokyBourbon wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth pointing out that, while health care in Germany is better than most of Europe, it is well below the standards Americans are accustomed to. Americans have a much higher survival rate for cancer and other serious diseases due to advanced diagnostic procedures and higher pay for physicians. Americans are comfortable asking doctors for more tests and services when the doctor doesn't think its necessary because…

Would you mind putting sources for these claims? There exist many contradictory claims [1]. 1) https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/cancer-spen...

Op's numbers are probably for those who can afford the treatment.

Heck, if even getting checked up might be a big spending for low earners I wonder how many people die without being correctly diagnosed.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#183

Post by miguelrochefort »

thinkloop wrote: post #106
miguelrochefort wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(4000 + 0) - (800 + 1000 + 0 + 150 + 150 + 150) = $1750 CAD = $1336 USD

Times 12 is $16,032 - sad face - need to triple the $4k.

It's impossible over here (Montreal).

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#184

Post by nasalgoat »

cylinder wrote: post #107
nasalgoat wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising money for an internet startup in Canada is effectively impossible. You might get some minor Series A angel investors (dentists and vets are your best bet), but once you start getting into the Series B rounds where you need real money, you won't find anyone willing to risk it. All they're interested in is gas/oil/mining. Very risk adverse. We've had to resort to roadshows down in California and New York to try…

It's not about risk aversion. There's just not enough money going around. US is a big country so obviously if 1% of your capital will be allocated to high risk VC it's going to be a much more substantial amount.

We've had Canadian VCs tell us it was too risky to invest in internet startups. Full stop.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#185

Post by bdavisx »

MrDosu wrote: post #54
mjn wrote: post #5

If you're comparing to European jobs, one factor is that the U.S. has higher income inequality then many other countries, which means generally the highly paid jobs pay more, and the poorly paid jobs pay less. This will make U.S. salaries look good in some areas, and bad in others. (The median U.S. salary is also a bit higher than most other countries, but not by enough to explain the differences seen specifically in…

Can confirm. As a comparison: I am a programmer with above average pay in Germany, my mom works upper management in a big company. I make about twice as much as a steel worker and she makes twice as much as me. The same jobs in the us would pay about 3-4 times a steelworker for me and triple to quadruple my pay for her.

I can confirm that. Live in the US, work for a giant company. I make very good money, but someone in management just 2 levels above me (e.g. my boss's boss) makes over 2x what I make. There's no way most of those people contribute that much more to the company - some might, but most don't.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#186

Post by Eridrus »

nasalgoat wrote: post #184
cylinder wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about risk aversion. There's just not enough money going around. US is a big country so obviously if 1% of your capital will be allocated to high risk VC it's going to be a much more substantial amount.

We've had Canadian VCs tell us it was too risky to invest in internet startups. Full stop.

They're not really wrong though. Unless you really know what you're doing you will lose money, as evidenced by the fact that most VCs do in fact lose money and venture as an asset class sucks.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#187

Post by cr1895 »

curiousphil wrote: post #176
atmosx wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lack of "affordable" healthcare really isn't a concern for the six figure tech worker class Isn't it? Let's do the math... A leukimia treatment drug that is virtually free in most advanced European healthcare will cost virtually 0 USD/year. In india the same drug might as far as 2.5k/year. In the USA the same drug (patent hold by Novartis) costs 70k/year. Let's say you are living in SF. You get paid anywhere be…

Generally speaking good healthcare (insurance) is going to cover the majority of the cost of the drugs for the person that has it.

Yes, assuming one remains employed and still has this great employer-paid health insurance while needing this hypothetical $70k/year drug while fighting leukemia.

I really do wonder though, since there's zero guarantee in the US that one would remain employed through all of this.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#188

Post by cr1895 »

SmokyBourbon wrote: post #84
sigi45 wrote: post #55

I don't really care how much someone in USA earns. As a software engineere in germany you are earning good money. There are no killings in cities, affordable health care, high quality living standards, university costs 150$ for 6 month, no donald trump, 30 days real holiday (i take them, everyone does, every year), seldom over hours, parental leave. Btw. IT is more than google, apple, facebook and twitter. And no we…

It's worth pointing out that, while health care in Germany is better than most of Europe, it is well below the standards Americans are accustomed to. Americans have a much higher survival rate for cancer and other serious diseases due to advanced diagnostic procedures and higher pay for physicians. Americans are comfortable asking doctors for more tests and services when the doctor doesn't think its necessary because…

>Per capita Germany performs about half as many MRIs, CT scans, c-sections, coronary bypasses, or knee replacements as the U.S. And, if you're over 65, you have very little value to the public system. Doctors will merely manage your pain rather than work to extend your life regardless of your age like they do in the U.S.

Some thoughts I don't necessarily have answers to:

- is the lower occurrence of these procedures due to a lower need? Maybe wider-spread healthcare throughout life means overall people are healthier and need less procedures later on in life. Maybe these procedures are over-performed in the US and not necessarily under-performed in Germany (patients like having tests done and receiving medication, doctors/labs happy to do so because it is profitable, etc; for example, nowhere in Europe will you see "ask your doctor about XYZ drug!" advertising and antibiotics are much less commonly prescribed).

- there may indeed be a cultural/philosophical difference in approach to end-of-life care. Is it right that life should be extended at any cost in the US? Is this something that's available to someone who is poor and has basic or no insurance, or is it only available to someone wealthy or with an exceptionally strong insurance plan?

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#189

Post by ad-hominem »

cr1895 wrote: post #157
234dd57d2c8dba wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act like everyone in the USA has to wear body armor, has to set broken bones themselves and lives in tent cities. I have amazing dental, health, and eyecare. Free routine health checkups such as physicals, heck I even get a free gym membership. I drive a 350HP luxury sedan. Oh and I've never shot anyone, had to shoot anyone, or been the victim of a crime other than petty theft where my car was broken into one tim…

>I think your media has drastically altered your perception of what America is and is not. You're doing well for yourself, but aren't you also presenting an altered perception of America? Very, very few people in America are as fortunate as you.

Very very few people have health insurance coverage and a car?

It is actually the people who complain about having no job prospects, who don't have health insurance, and who can't afford a car that are the minority. Americans with jobs, healthcare, and cars are definitely the majority. I would even say the vast majority. Maybe a lot of them have 10k-70k in debt, and there are plenty of problems, but let's not act like America is the equivalent of a third-world country.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies outside the US pay so much less?

#190

Post by DanBC »

dx034 wrote: post #169
SmokyBourbon wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth pointing out that, while health care in Germany is better than most of Europe, it is well below the standards Americans are accustomed to. Americans have a much higher survival rate for cancer and other serious diseases due to advanced diagnostic procedures and higher pay for physicians. Americans are comfortable asking doctors for more tests and services when the doctor doesn't think its necessary because…

The healthcare is that good in many European countries. Netherlands, Norway, France, UK (NHS has an awful reputation but is actually quite good) are just some examples. It's rather rare to find a European country with expensive or inadequate healthcare.

The UK's NHS is in a bad situation because it's been underfunded for many years by all parties.

A lot of the current pressure is a combination of that chronic underfunding and the chronic underfunding of social care. We don't need more beds, we need better social care to allow us to use the beds we have more efficiently. (Except we do need more beds. In the last six years there's been a reduction of 1 in 16 acute beds and 1 in 5 MH beds).

It's a weird situation because UK gov spends less per capita on health care than the US gov. If we increased spending on certain things - social care; early intervention MH services; better drug and alcohol services - we'd save so much money.

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