Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 207 posts

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#181

Post by vanderreeah »

seekingcharlie wrote: post #153
vanderreeah wrote: post #73

I'm surprised to see no mention of Kindles / ebook readers. I tried reading novels to improve my German, but the physical effort of switching to a dictionary (either physical or web-based) was enough to make reading a chore. With my Kindle, I've downloaded an English-German dictionary and some novels, and now when I don't know a word I just tap it (well, kinda hold my finger down in a ZX81 fashion) and a translation…

Just to clarify - do you now buy ebooks in German? Do you have any recommendations for good books in German for beginners? I've tried buying kids books (Harry Potter etc), but even those are far too difficult.. the "clickable" dictionary sounds like it would resolve my issues though.

Yes - but I wasn't quite a beginner. The usual recommendation for adult books for beginners is Schlink's The Reader, though I found it dim-witted. I'd stick with Harry Potter and get a dictionary for an ebook reader.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#182

Post by afriday11 »

I went from no Mandarin skills, to managing teams in the language over a few years. Here are 3 things I learned along the way about language learning: 1. Pick a method and stick with it - at any given time I was doing flash cards to practice vocabulary, working through a grammar book, and listening to a language learning podcast, Chinesepod. Every now and then, I tried new methods, but generally, once something worked I stuck with it until I felt it wasn't working anymore. 2. Habit - Every morning I woke up and completed my flashcards. Every day I reviewed my flashcards at least once during my break at work. Most days I listened to an episode of Chinesepod on my commute to or from work. Most nights I spent 30-60 minutes going through my book and reviewing my notecards/podcast notes. I had a schedule and stuck to it most days (though there was wiggle room when things got busy). 3. Don't be afraid to sounds stupid - Whenever I had an opportunity, I would try to converse with someone. Even though I butchered the language for at least 2 years, I got a lot of feedback and practice with pronunciation and tones that I would have missed if I just stuck to reading my books and practicing speaking to myself.

To sum it all up: pick a method and practice daily. You can do this anywhere with little investment beyond 60 minutes of uninterrupted study per day.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#183

Post by Mikeb85 »

CDRdude wrote: post #179
Mikeb85 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kindling is actually a verb, as in, the act of 'kindling' a fire, even though it's also used to describe the material used to kindle a fire. Tinder is just the material.

There are two definitions, the verb and the noun.

Now there are. -ing words typically started as verbs. Eating, sleeping, etc...

This is why English is a clusterfuck, and makes no sense compared to most languages. Imagine if we called food 'eatings', that'd be weird, eh?

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#184

Post by rhlala »

-Listen a lot, you should aim listen and understand almost perfectly standard day to day conversations, before worry about being fluent, You cant be fluent(and correct phonetically) if you didnt ear the word many times, (and by diferent people). And you need to understand perfectlly, it means fast, if your brain is slowly thinking about how to speak, your mouth will be too, So listen and understand well first.

-School might be good for the first basis, forget it soon (at least for easier languages).

-Find something interesting in this language, about your work, about your hobby, looking local series helps a lot, language+cultural.

-Be around people who dont speak your first language.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#185

Post by westiseast »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #74
westiseast wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask respectfully what you mean by fluent? Only because...the textbook definition and the colloquial definition differ. I think generally when people say 'fluent' they mean 'native speaker level at reading, writing and speaking language X', whereas fluent actually means you can speak without hesitation on a range of topics. Just a clarification, not an attack! Edit: Plus, I wouldn't knock wordlists. I started tr…

I also have a problem with the word "fluent". Ok you say you're fluent, here's a simple self-check: Explain to someone in the language you claim to be fluent in how you'd go about making a fire without any matches. (hint: you need to use words like tinder, kindling, flint, etc.). If you can't do this, or grapple with the fact that you don't have a repertoire of these words in your vocabulary, you might want to recons…

Well, yeah that's why I have trouble with it. At least in Mandarin Chinese, which I have experience with, I've seen people describing themselves as 'fluent' when in reality they are either (a) lying or (b) meaning that they can speak conversationally.

My real world rule of thumb is that if I wrote "Fluent in Mandarin" on my CV, but then in the interview I couldn't read or write decent responses to emails or something like that, then most people wouldn't consider that as fluent (despite the dictionary definition).

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#186

Post by greggman »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #152
greggman wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on the film though. There are family dramas I can understand 100% but I watch a movie with lawyers or science or high level government or military meetings and I'm lost.

Interesting. When watching movies in English as a native Spanish speaker it's the other way around, at least for me. It's much easier to understand a movie with plenty of scientists, intellectuals or government officials than one with average people, as those tend to use slang, colloquial expressions and Americanisms that they don't teach you in courses. In fact teenage flicks are probably the hardest genre to unders…

There's that too. And that's more evidence I'm not fluent. In English if someone uses new slang on me I understand it almost immediately from context. In my 2nd language I'm lost

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#187

Post by stevekemp »

cJ0th wrote: post #172
guitarbill wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most important part in my opinion is to live in a country that speaks the language you want to learn. You have to immerse yourself as much as possible with the culture and language. Also very important that you aren't afraid to try to use what you learned. I cannot agree with this more. Coincidentally, I'm also fluent in German and English, and am learning Japanese. At school, I took French, but I hated it. It…

When you live in a foreign country, how do you make sure that you have plenty of opportunities to talk to people?

When you live in a foreign country many things will be different/new, and so you have the perfect excuse to talk to strangers.

"Does this tram go to the (railway) station?", "Do you sell edam?", "How much is this?", "How do I buy a bus-pass?", etc.

I've recently moved from Scotland to Finland, and finding reasons to speak to strangers has not been difficult. Too often they reply in English, but every now and again I pass and have a conversation, albeit brief, entirely in Finnish - it's a little victory.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#188

Post by adrianratnapala »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #183
CDRdude wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two definitions, the verb and the noun.

Now there are. -ing words typically started as verbs. Eating, sleeping, etc... This is why English is a clusterfuck, and makes no sense compared to most languages. Imagine if we called food 'eatings', that'd be weird, eh?

We can complain about English in all sorts of ways, but the fact that gerunds are distinct from infinitives is not exactly a problem.

http://www.englishpage.com/gerunds/part_1.htm

Perhaps you are complaining that gerunds (which are already nouns) can grow extra meanings over time. But all languages do this kind of stuff.

German has exactly the "problem" you are talking about, only worse. Depending on capitalisation, "Essen/essen" can be the noun "food" or the the verb "to eat", But when used as verb, it is usally used in the sense of the English gerund "eating".

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#190

Post by whiteandnerdy »

grimoald wrote: post #180
jackfoxy wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everything you recommend, but it is possible to speak grammatically with near perfection much faster than years if you study the grammar. Finding the right grammar book/course may not be easy. I was lucking enough to go through the excellent German course at UCSB in the late '70s before I immersed myself. Getting all noun genders right in German is nearly impossible for a non-native speaker (even native…

> (even native speakers make mistakes) > colloquial diverges from the proper grammar. Since we are here on HN I'll allow myself to jump on your, to the topic of this thread totally unrelated, remarks. A native speaker can't really make mistakes, because what a native speaker speaks, defines the language. The grammars have to follow the speakers, not vice versa. The widespread world view that there is a proper languag…

I think the same grammatical construct that's "slangy" when used by a native can sound ignorant or wrong when used by a foreigner, so it's more important for non-native speakers to learn correct grammar.

Examples: * "I done " or "I ain't" in English * "Je n'sais pas" in French (I'm told I sound like a moron or a child when I try this)

Post reply on HN