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Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

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Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#171

Post by frostmatthew »

pbz wrote: post #162
UK-AL wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would not do a startup, unless I was one of the founders. Or they provided me with a non-nedglible equity stake or the best salary I could get. Most developers get tiny, tiny amounts of equity at startups which don't pay off in the end. And the appeal of "interesting work", soon dissipates when your up against deadlines, and the focus is speed not quality code. As is in most startups. Just working at a s…

Could you attach some numbers to what you consider tiny and adequate equity?

For me, there's no amount of equity that would be "adequate" - if a company wants to include some in an offer, great, but it's not going to be a factor in my decision.

Most likely the equity will be worth nothing or very little - I thus value it at zero so I'm not willing to give up any amount of salary for it.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#172

Post by Mahn »

> I would say I am 3 months of solid work away from having a good beta. I do not see this as an option as it would clear out most of my savings, and leave me in mostly the same position I am in now.

That won't be enough. You have to count with at least a year, if you are very lucky, for your own start up to start generating revenue.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#173

Post by ensignavenger »

rabbimarshak wrote: post #91
dminor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sift through projects on Odesk / Elance. You may find some part time work that may provide some supplemental income while at the same time improving your dev skills. You're probably better off taking unemployment and working on some quick projects to spiff up your github account. I experimented with Odesk/Elance for side income and the best job I managed to find was $20/hr.

Ah, the American way: Why work when you can get the same pay from the taxpayers pocket without having to? I rather work at McDonalds for half that @dminor and still have my pride, than to be a burden on society.

Unemployment benefits come come unemployment insurance. If the government is going to force us to pay the premiums, they best be willing to pay out the benefits.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#174

Post by joesmo »

pbz wrote: post #162
UK-AL wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would not do a startup, unless I was one of the founders. Or they provided me with a non-nedglible equity stake or the best salary I could get. Most developers get tiny, tiny amounts of equity at startups which don't pay off in the end. And the appeal of "interesting work", soon dissipates when your up against deadlines, and the focus is speed not quality code. As is in most startups. Just working at a s…

Could you attach some numbers to what you consider tiny and adequate equity?

For a typical startup, anything less than 5-10% for a first engineer (non founder) is tiny, negligible, and just not worth suffering (lower salary, lost health, long hours) a startup for. Of course, there are startups that offer decent salaries and normal working hours. They're just rare. In those cases, equity isn't necessarily an issue and even no equity can be just fine.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#175

Post by noarchy »

daxfohl wrote: post #157
golgappi wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at a startup and I am 25. I have saved up some money and seriously considering retirement by the time I am 30. Not that I have a lot of money saved up. I just have a couple of thousand bucks. Nothing fancy. But to me it is a seed money to try out new things, at an age where making huge mistakes wouldn't result in me being 70 and penniless. There will still be enough time to return back to IT once (if) I fail m…

Ahh, to be 25 and single again. Trust me by the time you're 35 and have kids you'll have a different sense of what's important. Your kids will be your sunshine but also your responsibility. Early retirement, living on a couple thousand dollars a year, will seem like the dumbest idea ever.

>Ahh, to be 25 and single again. Trust me by the time you're 35 and have kids you'll have a different sense of what's important. Your kids will be your sunshine but also your responsibility. Early retirement, living on a couple thousand dollars a year, will seem like the dumbest idea ever.

That's a choice that a 25 year old need not make.

For those of us who have hit or are even beyond 35, and chose not to have kids, things look very different. Particularly if you work in North American IT, you're able to funnel all of that extra disposable income into things like early retirement, as well as improving your day-to-day quality of life (that could be vacations, gadgets, whatever you'd like...).

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#176

Post by jeffmould »

frostmatthew wrote: post #171
pbz wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you attach some numbers to what you consider tiny and adequate equity?

For me, there's no amount of equity that would be "adequate" - if a company wants to include some in an offer, great, but it's not going to be a factor in my decision. Most likely the equity will be worth nothing or very little - I thus value it at zero so I'm not willing to give up any amount of salary for it.

I tend to agree with you in that I do not weigh a decision based on the amount of equity they are offering. A little side story as to why I do not weigh equity as I used to. Back in the first bubble (1998-2000) I went to work for a startup that had good leadership, big investors, and really came to define the SaaS model (although we called it an Application Service Provider at the time). I took a slight pay cut to come to work there, but I saw upside and they offered me a great equity package. A year and half down the road we were growing and planning to go public. They had not planned well and given out too much equity. Prior to the IPO we had to do an 8 to 1 reverse split, meaning that for every 8 shares you had you now had 1. Although the IPO was fairly successful out of the gate, moral was destroyed by the reverse split.

However, with that in mind, I will still give up salary in return for equity if I am (a) passionate about the business idea, (b) believe that there is a good chance that the business will succeed, (c) believe in the founders and team that is already in place, including any investors. And looking back (I am in my 40s now) the younger you are the more risk you can absorb in terms of equity. I enjoy the startup world and am willing to take risks. Plus, like any other job if it doesn't look like it is panning out or you are unhappy there is nothing holding you there.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#177

Post by nmcfarl »

UK-AL wrote: post #149
GolfyMcG wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real appeal to a startup has little to do with compensation. It's about "benefits" and intangibles. Obviously these will vary depending on the degree to how "start-upy" your company is but I think you can measure it most by the size. In the extreme example, when you start your own company, you own it all. You want casual Fridays? It's done. You want a remote/results-only workplace policy? It's done. Cubicles, pri…

Big companies provide better benefits, in tangible terms. A lot big/medium companies now have flexi-time, days to work remote. You probably won't get free pizza, but with the extra pay you can buy your own. I've never worked at a startup where you can personally chose the staff.. I've noticed people at startups tend to be developers focused on the latest trends, coding fast, the latest js framework etc, less focus on…

I'm a big startup advocate, and for roughly GolfyMcG's reasons.

But all things depend on the individual companies, in some startups you won't get to hire. And for my luck, of the 2 large companies where I worked there was no chance of flex-time, or remote - or any kind of non- 9-5 schedule even for devs. On the other hand at 1 of them everyone left at 5 on the dot cause no one cared about their jobs - and a strict 40 a week feels like vacation a lot.

I think regardless of where you go you have to pick wisely (and I only picked large because my options where limited and the salaries where good.).

But as a rule small - not just startup, means you have more power and control over yourself and your fiefdom. And that freedom is what you like that's where you should go. (Or research - there's a lot more paperwork with research teams, but there's a lot of freedom as well.)

And yes - if you like writing good code you are proud of years later a big co is good place to do it. At my government gig, we wrote prototypes we'd knew would have to be thrown away, perfectly - because really why not? There were no hard to meet deadlines, or particular concerns about the grants running out. So we built things we'd be proud of, every time.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#178

Post by fndrplayer13 »

frostmatthew wrote: post #170
fndrplayer13 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 on the startup idea. I left a big company to go to a startup and I think its really been a great choice. You'll be exposed to so many new ideas and technologies and really get a chance to expand your skillset. Maybe if you work at a big company like Google or Facebook you get exposed to more -- I don't know -- but where I came from it was night and day difference. For me, the people and experiences outweigh the sl…

> You'll be exposed to so many new ideas and technologies and really get a chance to expand your skillset. This will vary greatly by person and by company. For me it was the reverse - I went from a very small non-profit where I was the only developer to a large tech company and my skillset has expanded more in the ~6 months I've been here than in the 2.5 years I was at the non-profit.

Sure. I think this is a good point. I suppose when I was thinking startup I was envisioning a group of more than 1 developer. At least a 3-4.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#179

Post by UK-AL »

nmcfarl wrote: post #177
UK-AL wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big companies provide better benefits, in tangible terms. A lot big/medium companies now have flexi-time, days to work remote. You probably won't get free pizza, but with the extra pay you can buy your own. I've never worked at a startup where you can personally chose the staff.. I've noticed people at startups tend to be developers focused on the latest trends, coding fast, the latest js framework etc, less focus on…

I'm a big startup advocate, and for roughly GolfyMcG's reasons. But all things depend on the individual companies, in some startups you won't get to hire. And for my luck, of the 2 large companies where I worked there was no chance of flex-time, or remote - or any kind of non- 9-5 schedule even for devs. On the other hand at 1 of them everyone left at 5 on the dot cause no one cared about their jobs - and a strict 40…

In my experience startups are not that much about freedom. They are often dominated by autocratic personalities, and short deadlines.

Re: Ask HN: I got let go this morning. What should I do next?

#180

Post by UK-AL »

dsuth wrote: post #158
coned88 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit of a startup? Seems like more hours for less pay while always needing to get things done. I fail to see the appeal. They just have lunches and dinners which appeal to people.

Risk vs reward. When you are young, it makes a lot of sense to take risky ventures with potentially huge payoffs, as you tend to have less responsibilities. As you get older, you tend to become naturally more risk averse, and look for more reliable income streams to keep your responsibilities filled.

Make sure that risk, is balanced with a potential reward though. To many young people think just because a startup sells, your going to end with some of that cash.

Most likely your not going to end up with any of that cash, unless you get into the right position first.

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