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Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#171

Post by talldatethrow »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #125
Havoc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric Schmidt echoed similar sentiment in his recent interview. Basically do it, if startup fails then it doesn’t matter. If it succeeds then lawyers can sort it out.

Which makes total sense for consumers as well. If the startup succeeds is because consumers are finding value in it. Uber is the best example. Uber is ilegal only in countries with deep corruption where taxi unions can make legislators ignore their constituents. Uber (and any other car sharing app) is the best solution for me as a consumer compared to the traditional old school taxi service.

Totally. I propose we start a brothelBnB next door to your home. Home owner wins, customer wins, worker wins, startup wins! Score! Market has spoken!

I also recommend HoboSleepinCar Driveway as a service next to your home. The consumer has spoken!

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#172

Post by uoaei »

yonran wrote: post #103

The FTC Guidelines for Collaborations Among Competitors https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/attachments/dealings... says it’s illegal to share “competitively sensitive variables”, not just any data. Some forms of data sharing such as industry averages may not be illegal, but more detailed data such as numbers of applicants or price elasticity that enable the companies to act together as if they were a monopoly pr…

How sure are you that the incentives in place don't encourage inching toward this behavior as they begin to establish themselves?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#174

Post by cess11 »

I'm not sure about the legal aspects in your jurisdiction but in many others it is common for unions to aggregate this information and there are usually companies that do this or hook into the books and compare what different companies are paying for services and material they use that then sell back information about whether they could cut costs.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#176

Post by znpy »

The "funny" thing really is the fact that most company forbid you from discussing your wages with your coworkers, but this seems like an automated way for companies to discuss the salaries they pay with other companies.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#177

Post by rodiger »

lisnake wrote: post #166
Havoc wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric Schmidt echoed similar sentiment in his recent interview. Basically do it, if startup fails then it doesn’t matter. If it succeeds then lawyers can sort it out.

Didn't work for Elizabeth Holmes

There's a difference between "doing an illegal thing as a product" and "lying to investors about your product"

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#178

Post by KoftaBob »

From a US perspective, if Pave existed in a market where salaries weren't transparent, I would say yes, it's veering into being an anti-competitive/wage-fixing tool.

However, more and more states every year are introducing laws that require salary ranges on job listings. What that means is that Pave is basically just organizing the data that's already becoming public for job applicants and employers alike.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#179

Post by dmattia »

__loam wrote: post #164
billjings wrote: post #132

As described, it is a fair ways away from what RealPage is doing. Specifically: * RealPage sells raising rents, not just market info. * RealPage pressures clients into taking their higher rents. * RealPage also pressure clients to refuse to rent at lower rates for their own narrow economic interest - in other words, they actively seek to circumvent competitive pressure to keep rents high. (edit: to clarify, I mean th…

What's the point of getting this data if it's not to pay less money? What is the value add?

It's almost certainly for the companies to pay less money, but with a more generous reading, I think it could be argued that that doesn't necessarily have to come out of employee salaries. That data could be used to:

- Set reasonable ranges to find the right candidates they are looking for faster and minimize hiring friction

- Standardize payment levels in a way that reduces legal liability in certain states like Colorado/California. Or the most generous reading of "reduces legal liability" would be "promoting fairness".

- Reduce the time spent by HR/other teams of negotiating or setting salaries, as they can simply target some target like "we want to pay more than 60% of companies like us"

- For budgeting/forecasting with new hires, this allows companies to have more confidence in their estimates as they plan hiring.

- Some companies now offer calculators even before you're hired with what your salary/compensation might look like, such as https://posthog.com/handbook/people/compensation

But yes, overall I do believe that most companies also expect a general reduction in salaries when they use these tools.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Pave legal?

#180

Post by Retric »

hunter2_ wrote: post #163
hypeatei wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's widely understood and part of the job description of being a public servant. What's not widely understood is HR secretly selling your data while working at a private company.

> your data Is it yours though? The employer could probably argue that it's theirs. Devil's advocate: I think it's widely understood that entities can be transparent with their data if they choose, other than NDA scenarios.

Most companies request people not share pay information. Information asymmetry is a huge deal in negotiations.
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