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Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#171

Post by KerrAvon »

jongjong wrote: post #164
iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

you need to read up on the history of those regulations. Hint: chesterton’s fence

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#172

Post by kstenerud »

YPPH wrote: post #20
kstenerud wrote: post #10

It would be nice to have an AI powered toaster that can provide me with early morning toast and light conversation.

Go on, start imagining. You wake up to make your toast, press the button down, and see: * Sorry, you must complete a critical system update before proceeding. * Wi-Fi unavailable, please check the network. * Your AccuToast (TM) subscription has expired. Please update your details on the web. * Non-genuine bread detected, please ensure you purchase AccuToast (TM) certified bread. * Tampering detected, contact manufact…

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#173

Post by atoav »

As someone who builds and designs hardware for music as a hobby since a decade (but to a somewhat industrial standard): Unless you have history in hardware or someone with a lot of experience in it, I'd advice against it, if your plan is to earn a living. If your plan is to learn something, go on.

Hardware is, well, hard. You will figure out why things cost the amount they do, and you will wonder why, till you find all the tricks manufacturers pull off – with the most important one being economies of scale. There will be many prototypes, and sometimes you will end with something that is extremely cool, but entirely to expensive for what it does. Sometimes things will fail for unknown reasons. There are tons of regulations your device will need to respect (and you need to know them).

Why don't you start building the toaster in your sparetime and figure out whether that object is a thing that could sit on the right spot in the market with some automation? If the answer is that you lack the hardware skill, I would caution against moving forward unless you got the market side all figured out and know your product would work financially. Then this would be about finding a person that fills your gaps.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#174

Post by zztop44 »

jongjong wrote: post #164
iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

I love that regulations kill people through both excessive mental distress and false peace of mind. That’s wonderful.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#176

Post by tcmart14 »

jongjong wrote: post #164
iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

Its not there to help incumbents. New companies come up all the time to make these kinds of products. Its a barrier to entry to keep Joe dipshit who learned how to solder together two wires last night thinking he can has an overnight get rich quick scheme shoddily throwing some random components together without knowing or acknowledging what they are really doing and selling that product to some unsuspecting person that is gonna get to experience a (maybe?) fun spark show and electrical fire as soon as they plug in their new device. Its happened enough that these barriers have pretty much become required. But if someone is serious about making a product, they will take the necessary steps for certification.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#177

Post by Dig1t »

randmeerkat wrote: post #125
nl wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree. The high end of the market is a proven niche and the target high-end buyer has demonstrated a willingness to spend freely on premium grade products. Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters? While in general this is true I think "premium" grade home appliances generally top out around twice the cost of mid-range (I'm thinking vacuums, ovens, refrigerators etc where you compare similar…

> Are you saying there is a proven market for luxury toasters? There’s a proven luxury market for literally anything. Just look at the $399 Wolf Toaster, which coincidentally is made in the U.S. This is the same brand that makes the famous Wolf Ranges. https://wolfgourmet.com/store/countertop-appliances/four-sli...

Wow, I did a bunch of searching and this company did not come up. I don’t know how I missed this.

It’s pretty ugly considering the price.

I just learned about Dualit because of this thread, they make something very similar to the vision I have in my head, except it’s made in the UK instead of the US.

I was picturing basically recreating something like the Sunbeam T-20.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#178

Post by atoav »

jongjong wrote: post #164
iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

That means you the kind of person that buys an experimental toaster and leaves it plugged through the night in your families kitchen?

There might be regulation that is too much, also in the field of electrical engineering (and I am a certified EE), but most of it (especially regarding toasters) is pretty useful if you want to sleep sound.

This is not about making a toaster. I could make one using a long piece of wire and a transformer. It is about making a toaster that has a certain standard and does not kill people, burn down houses and/or interferes with radio traffic. All kind of things that would suck.

If you can't clear that bar as a manufacturer, you shouldn't be one. You could still build things for yourself – but if you want to sell things to others they should be able to assume you are not out there to kill them without deeply researching your company, aquiring a degree in mechanical and electrical engineering, buying your product and disassembling it. And I say that as a person that would be able to do that, unlike most.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#179

Post by mapasj »

starky wrote: post #40

I think you are greatly over-estimating how many people would be willing to pay the cost of a North American made toaster. This would require an absolute ton of capital to do it on anything above a craft scale. The challenges of design, testing, certification (very important for a device that could burn your house down), manufacturing, supply chain, and support that are all specialized careers in themselves. I've got…

I think many Americans want to buy Made-in-the-USA products. Some evidence of that are websites, Reddit groups, etc dedicated to helping people find those products. I think it’s generally understood by these consumers that the price will be higher. And I don’t think it needs to be premium either.

There’s a market for knit hats made in the USA. I doubt the quality assurance or price could compete with a factory from Asia, but they still sell. Partly because Americans want to support American businesses. Not the same as a toaster, but I can see consumer demand being similar.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#180

Post by chubot »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #139
Dig1t wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>washing machines Among your examples I think this one is interesting. Speed Queen is regarded as among the best washing machines + dryers and they are made in the US. They are extremely well built, they feel really sturdy to use and also are known for being extremely reliable. I guess what I'm imagining is the Speed Queen of toasters..

They’re also known to use a ton of water, be extremely inefficient, and destroy your clothing much faster than a modern washer. Fetishizing “the good old simple times” isn’t going to get us to better products.

citation?

I never heard of Speed Queen, or even seen one, but someone recommended them on here a few weeks ago

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