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Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#171
post #128

Earlier this year, I interviewed this guy who gave me really strange vibes. He would stall for a good 15-20 seconds after each question I asked... and then spit out a perfectly worded answer. I google'd some specific, peculiar phrases I remembered him saying after the interview and found that the phrases came straight out of places like the Kubernetes documentation, word for word. He was googling my questions and the…

I'd reach out to Crowdstrike with the domains names (https://dataservicegroup[.]com). This follows the MO of APTs out of North Korea: https://www.wired.com/story/north-korean-it-scammer-alert/ If you share the list of similar phrases and the domain names that pop up when you search for those phrases the Crowstrike researchers can (a) probably help confirm which group(s) you're dealing with or at least (b) write up an analysis piece on yet another APT trying to gain a foothold in sensitive systems via the ol' fake candidate mechanism.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like making people write code live. Some really good coders just don't work well with people looking over their shoulder. I prefer giving people a take-home with an original problem to solve. Then, follow that up with a live call where you ask them some questions about it.

You can still be coached through a take-home and follow-up though. I like to ask a very easy problem to start (some candidates spend the full 45 minutes on it) and then ask a similar problem after to build on it. If you work for a company there is some expectation of being able to work while people watch you. I don't like asking crazy dynamic programming problems, etc, but something simple and something slightly hard…

> You can still be coached through a take-home and follow-up though.

Of course. Anyone who lacks the ability to complete the assignment can submit a solution written by someone else and be told how it works. Where they’ll fail in follow-up questioning is when you dive into their decision making process.

I have only found one person to have cheated in an interview, and they were exceedingly easy to identify as a fraud when questioned in person.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#173
post #20

Ug... as someone that one day would like to work remote this is infuriating. Anyone who is doing this, you're destroying trust and making life hard for the rest of us.

As a current job searcher, I literally tried to explain this to my mother a few hours ago. Basically, "I can't get anyone to hire me despite the fact that I interview very well because there's literally no trust that I've done the things I say I've done/worked on, and that are hard to substantiate because of the simple fact that I was making the products instead of making landing pages for the products."

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#174
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't facial expression and your communication skills considered a part of your "expertise"? I personally prefer asking the person to open the camera or reschedule to a later date if they can't.

I personally agree which is why I also join every interview with my camera on. Objectively though you have to consider that the job market is a MARKET, and if the seller (candidate) considers they can do just fine without the camera (or anything else really) then you have to accept that fact and move on to another candidate if you can or just go forward with them without camera. Nobody owes anything to anyone here.

Recently I did a few rounds of interviews. I found that I was bombing the phone only interviews but doing well with the camera on. I'm all in for basing part of the interview based on looks vs how someone sounds but I do think stereotypes play a part.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#175
post #128

Earlier this year, I interviewed this guy who gave me really strange vibes. He would stall for a good 15-20 seconds after each question I asked... and then spit out a perfectly worded answer. I google'd some specific, peculiar phrases I remembered him saying after the interview and found that the phrases came straight out of places like the Kubernetes documentation, word for word. He was googling my questions and the…

I do feel that if its possible to google interview questions in 20 seconds they are bad interview questions.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#176
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy cow, you can't get a job? What?! That makes me feel better about not being able to.

I don't feel better. What hope is there for me then!? Fuck-em and their stupid snobby jobs anyway.

It makes me think that the r/cscareerquestions tack of forgetting everything else and focusing on just leetcode may actually have merit.

For what it's worth, I think Chris Marshall looks like a great developer and a professional I aspire to emulate. However, a lot of companies do make decisions based on metrics, keyword searches, and standardized tests like leetcode (aka stuff that misses out on the human element), so it makes sense to try and balance both if one hasn't done so already.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damage an individual can do by being overemployed or fraudulent pales in comparison to what some of those agencies do, and they can be fucking over the candidate and company at the same time since they are middlemen. Tons of calls for technical tests of individuals to prevent fraud/bad hires. No one does a technical interview for talent agency recruiters to make sure their company can filter candidates well thoug…

> The damage an individual can do by being overemployed.... What "damage" does being "overemployed" do in and of itself? If the person is meeting expectations, as long as they're not moonlighting for a competitor, who cares what other things they do to make money?

They’re referring to people who are incompetent and take roles in which they are not qualified to take.

In the case I was referring to, the developer who showed up for the job couldn’t even write a single line of code. We caught this quickly, but not immediately. There were certainly monetary damages from onboarding costs and time wasted, and non monetary damages from reputation with our customers.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So all these Indian outsourcing companies like Infosys, Wipro and TCS (just like FAANG, they accronymize to WITCH) hog the American H1B immigration system by submitting an application for as many candidates as possible, and get a large number of H1Bs approved and send their employees to the US. The salary for these employees isn’t exactly great. If I’m not wrong they still work through these witch companies and get t…

I find it strange that there appears to be international networks within American universities. I have noticed a large number of people from the same countries, attending similar vague programs (like you mentioned), writing theses with advisors from their home country. It makes me wonder if they are just getting into a completely different program with the "American university" name. Do you have any insight into this…

> It makes me wonder if they are just getting into a completely different program with the "American university" name.

Not op, but I can answer this.

Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer:

Most non-terminal Masters degree programs are degree mills, even at well known universities. These are almost always pay-to-play with few opportunities for scholarships, TAships, or whatever.

Most “real” students will enter a doctoral program and take a masters if they decide a doctorate is not for them.

Note that there are exceptions, especially for folks who are changing their career/degree path from undergrad, but these are relatively rare in my experience (at least at good schools).

A few simple examples from Harvard:

- the LLM law degree is a cash cow for the law school. It is only open to foreigners, and it is almost always funded by a company or the government. Ostensibly this program exists because other countries have undergrad law degrees, but the reality imho is that it’s a juicy cash cow that also generates a strong network.

- Harvard EdM degrees are a 9-month program with no thesis — coursework only. There is nothing wrong with this, but it’s a very weak academic program imho. It might be a good practitioner degree, but that doesn’t seem very Harvard-esque.

- The MA degrees in the yard (esp arts and humanities) and the div school are pay-to-play ways for Ivy/Harvard wannabes to get the Harvard stamp of approval. You have to be a decent student to get in, but nothing exceptional (e.g., compared to doctoral students). The key point is that the student is willing to pay. These degrees don’t really say much about the program or the student other than they were an above-average college student who was willing to pay to get the Harvard badge.

I’ve seen similar programs at very good state schools, with the standards lowered a bit. You see a lot of foreign nationals (looking for h1b jobs after graduation) and vets on the gi bill (often coasting on the government dime with no academic skills or ambition) in these state school programs.

If a professor is from a foreign country and/or has a relationship with schools/businesses in foreign countries, it is very easy to use masters degrees as a gateway to employment and residence in the US, and the school largely doesn’t care as long as the student pays and (in some fields) is able to get a job.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#179
post #28

Quoted post unavailable.

You do realize that at some point you will actually need to go to the company your are interviewing with in person and to provide a lot more personal information than just a blurry mugshot from a Zoom call in order to be able to be employed and collect a salary?? Nobody collects "critical PII" using job interviews, no company has time for such nonsense. The companies that do collect such information don't do it using…

This is a real concern for job seekers. I would send my info to any Hong Kong, Israeli or African based random job ad because of identity fraud

Re: Ask HN: Anyone having issues with job applicant fraud?

#180
post #96

Not only have I seen this several times, I've also encountered multiple instances of "over-employed" software engineers, who are doing 2-3 full time salaried positions from home, at the same time. This is surprisingly easy to get away with unnoticed in the US tax system, as you get a separate W2 from each employer. It's genuinely a lot more difficult to do this in some other countries. There's even this service now o…

Yeah but that doesn't look fun. My roommate is doing this now. I think it's insane, they sit at their desk with three computers working all day long. They're stressed out and burning out rapidly.

No thanks.

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