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Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

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Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#171

Post by robcohen »

MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #162
robcohen wrote: post #11

I collect a lot of certs for fun, but most have not been helpful. I still like to collect them anyway. I think OSCP was the most legitimately useful in tech https://www.offensive-security.com/pwk-oscp/ PMP has been useful to take on Project Manager roles, but really PrM roles aren't all that exciting to begin with. Still helps when you want to run your own projects. I'm currently studying to be a certified parliament…

just out of interest, what do you do with the offensive security knowledge?

I used to be a pentester, so it was pretty applicable...

Pentesting really requires "full stack" systems knowledge, from networking, to OS, to API analysis, malware analysis, binary reverse engineering. OSCP is an applied cert, so it really forces you to be able to leverage knowledge in a practical way.

However my favorite benefit of offsec is really being able to see things from an attacker's perspective. This has been super valuable in many situations and I've found I'm many times the only person in the room with an awareness of an adversarial mindset.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#172

Post by robcohen »

booleandilemma wrote: post #78
creakingstairs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, how are you going to get CPA? Don't you need work experience as well as exams for that?

Yeah a CPA isn’t just something you can go out and get like a Microsoft cert.

Actually you can, you just need to experience to get the charter. You can go pass the exam so long as you have the educational background.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#173

Post by bad416f1f5a2 »

hijinks wrote: post #116
mudrockbestgirl wrote: post #49

This will not apply to all companies, but for our hiring decisions certs have an adverse effect. If someone puts many certifications on their resume my expectations are lower and I likely won't consider them for interviews. It's a negative signal in my experience. Your time is better spent working on side projects, contributing to open source, writing a blog, etc. I.e. do real-world stuff instead of wasting time on a…

as someone in Devops/SRE I hold the same thinking as you. Whenever I see an interview come in loaded with certs, I automatically think they just know how to take tests and study for them. It's almost 100% that they fail the interview because they don't know how to put the learning into real world solutions.

I find this take funny.

My past company had a huge pile of credits for certs because they valued them and I figured “I’ve been working with AWS; why not?” I didn’t study or prepare at all and went in using only the hands-on knowledge I picked up over my career.

I came out with all the associate certs, the AWS solutions architect pro, and their network specialty.

As a hiring manager I find certs to be a neutral indicator: you at least have to know the material to get them, but plenty of people learn the material hands-on, not from books.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#174

Post by syntaxing »

Serious question, seems like the general sentiment certs are a negative signal (which I don’t agree with but everyone to their own) but where do degrees sit? If certs are a waste of time and people should spend their time “working on something real instead”, wouldn’t this also apply to degrees?

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#175

Post by robcohen »

leeoniya wrote: post #166
NoOneNew wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Past CDL holder here. Fyi, you are then a "professional driver" even in a normal car driving to the grocery. If you get a ticket, many states will instantly double the fine because as a pro, "you know better". Plus there's the medical aspect and other bullshit. Unless you're going to actually use it, dont get it. Learn to drive an 18 speed with air brakes etc, sure. Just dont get the actual cdl.

to add to this, if you dont actually use your SCUBA or first responder or pilot skills on a regular basis, those certs are worthless at best, and dangerous at worst.

This is true, but I do try to keep the training up. I'm certainly not doing it every weekend, but I train a minimum of 3-4 times per year for W-EMR. Scuba, honestly so long as you do it once or twice a year you're fine, it's really not terribly hard.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#176

Post by ElemenoPicuares »

mudrockbestgirl wrote: post #49

This will not apply to all companies, but for our hiring decisions certs have an adverse effect. If someone puts many certifications on their resume my expectations are lower and I likely won't consider them for interviews. It's a negative signal in my experience. Your time is better spent working on side projects, contributing to open source, writing a blog, etc. I.e. do real-world stuff instead of wasting time on a…

Be careful about the bias in single-metric gatekeeping strategies like this. Contributing to open source projects, having side projects, et al are pursuits of leisure. Certificates are possibly the only foot in the door for folks working multiple jobs with kids, etc. and the government often pays the tuition for low income folks. Once you’ve got them, even if you’re more established, it would be crazy to leave them off of your resume, right?

Not only could you be bypassing people passionate enough to work their way into the field through pretty adverse circumstances, you could be inadvertently reducing the diversity of your workforce in doing so. I know it’s tough to have to whittle down a list of candidates on paper, but the closer you are to judging a person’s path rather than their capability, the more likely you’ll be to favor people who mirror your cultural identity and experiences. So if someone looks like they’ve got the requisite skills. It certainly doesn’t mean everybody with a pile of certs is worth considering, but it’s probably not a good immediate disqualifier.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#177

Post by elbigbad »

My friend got something called “Board Certification” in the medical field and apparently is quite a big deal. Another friend got something similar in the legal field and apparently isn’t particularly useful.

In tech the more prominently someone posts these certifications, the bigger the red flag. Someone just got a CISSP for some reason, perhaps as part of a job, and it’s at the bottom of the CV? Sure ok. Someone puts “PMP” in their signature line next to their name? Flashing red flag.

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#178

Post by phpisthebest »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #151
phpisthebest wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a career in software development, does not demonstrate a degree-level knowledge of software development degree, really?

A software engineering degree is an academic degree, not a vocational certificate. Look at this syllabus for a 4-year degree in software engineering. [0] It's broadly similar to what we'd expect of a computer science degree. Topics include: • Computer architecture • Compilers • Computer graphics • Cryptography • Deep learning • Software verification The average self-taught web developer has a working knowledge of non…

First I never said anything about web development...

That said then there is a clear disconnect between employment, and degree's

Employers often are requiring these "software engineering" degree's for basic level software development, and /or web development

That is the the point of my comment, often time people feel required to spend 10's or 100's of thousands on a degree for the sole purpose of attaining employment as a software developer.

If they are being educated in a way that does not prepare them for that job then the degree is less than worthless, and it an out right scam

Re: Ask HN: Any certification that is worth it? Legitimately helped your career?

#179

Post by robcohen »

mdaverde wrote: post #63
robcohen wrote: post #11

I collect a lot of certs for fun, but most have not been helpful. I still like to collect them anyway. I think OSCP was the most legitimately useful in tech https://www.offensive-security.com/pwk-oscp/ PMP has been useful to take on Project Manager roles, but really PrM roles aren't all that exciting to begin with. Still helps when you want to run your own projects. I'm currently studying to be a certified parliament…

Why do you think cert collecting is fun? I can see this being the case just for the fact that certs are usually paired a structured curriculum for learning a new skill. This takes a huge mental burden off and decreases time wasted in deadend exploration.

Honestly, I enjoy learning but I don't like having nothing to show for it. Unstructured learning like going to a library and picking out a random book drives me nuts, I quickly feel overwhelmed. A cert at least gives me some goal to shoot for -- where I can prove some basic competency in the subject by virtue of having the cert.

I need something to "show" for my efforts. Project-based learning can work for me as well, but it takes extra work to figure it out for a given skill. I'm learning photography and I have a goal of doing 1 portrait session per week for a few months. That kind of thing helps me feel like I'm making measurable progress.

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