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Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

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171–180 of 274 posts

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#171

You should do it. Princeton NJ is a beautiful part of the state, and close to the university. Not sure where you will live, but Nassau Street has a quaint charm. There's plenty to do, and you are a 90 minute train ride to Manhattan. Don't let the comments discourage you. People are just blowing off steam from the roe v wade ruling.

Princeton is indeed beautiful. The housing stock is a little mixed -- the apartments near the university are pretty old, and there wasn't much new construction happening when I attended the university in the late 2000s, but the homes (manors, really) nearby are nice (but expensive). You will absolutely need a car. There are buses, but the routes are sparse. It is indeed possible to do a day trip to NYC, as I did many times. You will end up in Penn Station, which is awful, and midtown, which is awful, but the subways will take you where you want to go.

I overall do not miss living in Princeton, though I know a fair number of people who stayed after graduation, or moved to Princeton after living in some big cities. It's monocultural, to borrow a term some other commenters have used. It is mostly people who work in or adjacent to the university; it is mostly affluent, white people; there is some art, centered around the theater or the museum scene, but it is the art of that one culture. However, take my subjective experience of the city with a grain of salt.

Moving is hard. Moving to a new country doubly so. Make sure you have a strategy for finding friends, likely through your wife's work, or perhaps through meetups. Americans are easy to make friends with. That is, at least, one thing we have going for us, still, in these troubled times.

Freelancing for software engineers is very common. I have many friends who do it. You do not even need to file for a corporation to do it. The taxes are not much worse than being a salaried, full-time employee: as with the W-4 form, it is copying numbers off a page someone mails you.

Ageism is a real thing in the tech industry here. It is not difficult to find a job, but you will likely work with younger people, probably people in their 20s. Some companies do a good job of integrating people across the age spectrum, but some -- the ones that expect late or odd hours, especially -- do not. That is changing though! The tech industry only gets older each year.

If you do move, find a place with central air conditioning. It gets hot and humid during the summers, and only more so now, a decade later, with climate change. Check out, also, the McCarter Theater, which is beautiful. David Sedaris, one of my favorite authors, often gives a talk there each year; and the students from the university put on a pretty good revue each year as well.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#172
post #9
post #4

Two neighbors, ex-USA Citizens have give up the Citizenship to cut their tie with the IRS... They often say "America is here" (France). IME if you plan a short migration for a project, witch means go, earn enough money, come back and you do not need ANY KIND of health services in the foreseeable meantime it's ok. If not... USA level of services is third world compared to EU, bureaucracy is byzantine, surely you might…

You need a lawyer just to subscribe to a local gym?

That's an exaggeration yes, but not that much: I was in the USA for a project, I want to try a local gym and they give me a 60+ pages or so contracts!

Here, and at least in most EU country, the contract is just one page with the list of services and the relative monthly or per-entry fee + privacy notice. It's not even a real contract in the end. All I need is a generic medical certificate that declare I'm healthy enough to go to the gym.

Surely it's not a valid meter for a country, but still a significant sign of really exaggerated bureaucracy where a lawyer might be needed just to be sure not get trapped somewhere.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#173
post #149
post #7

Hello there, I live in Berlin now and used to live in the United States. My family is there, and I go back to the east coast of the US often. The degenerating and dystopian quality of the United States is difficult to overstate, but almost impossible to capture verbally. Whatever one cause attributes to the systematic breakdown of the US, it is difficult to deny the realities of the decline -- massive alcohol and nar…

> Stay here, make this moderately good place even better. or better yet, come to the us and bring your good influence to help get this troubled place back on track. the political situation in the united states is indeed complex and troubled, but the influence and impact of the united states on western nations is undeniable. if it does implode in some horrific way, it's hard to imagine a scenario where it doesn't drag…

If you preach to a voting base who will vote against you at every turn, good influence has no value. You can only go where you are welcome to share, where ideas can be safely and intelligently discussed, and reasonable people can come to some sort of compromise or a solution all can agree on.

US politics have become too polarized, where constituents don't want solutions (evidenced by them voting for representatives who don't vote in the public interest, or who publicly gloat about hurting the other side through policy), and no one person has the power to move the needle (not to mention Citizen's United where the wealthy can pour unfathomable amounts of fiat into races to back their candidates and their politics). Know when to hold them, and know when to fold them.

EDIT: And it's not just the elected. A SCOTUS Justice motivated purely by hate.

https://www.businessinsider.com/clarence-thomas-told-clerks-...

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/27/us/2-years-after-his-brui...

> Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas told his law clerks in the '90s that he wanted to serve for 43 years to make liberals' lives 'miserable'

(us citizen leaving for western europe)

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#174

Personal context: I am American, have lived in 9 countries on 5 continents & currently live in Europe, and am the same age as the OP. Immersing oneself within another culture is almost always worth it, but like anything valuable there are always challenges. Psychologically, the Gartner hype cycle will apply to you and your family (replace “innovation trigger” with “new culture trigger”). Given your visa situation is…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#175
I moved also with 50 for 3 years, and it made sense to me then. Of course I'm happily back.

NY pays good, the rest in the East not so, comparable to Germany. Living in third world countries is always interesting.

free-lancing is easy, but also easy to find (and loose) a job. you'd might get a H1-B, which means you would be tied to a company. Or a O1, then you are free to choose. everybody can get a O1 there, you just need some references of excellence. eg for dancing in strip clubs, or doing DJ'ing.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#176
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including runaway inflation The same as everywhere... due to a war and pandemic . > a government and social safety net that is rapidly becoming unaffordable Completely false. Do you even read our budgets? Your debt-to-GDB was literally 3x ours last year. European countries aren't even allowed to deficit spend more than a few percent (which is what got Greece in trouble, for example.) > they pretend don’t exist I'm…

I find lectures about American society from Europeans, as the parent comment did, exceedingly ironic and misinformed considering the same issues plague both sides. Even more so as American armed forces and weapons (and our tax dollars and political system) are what protect all of you from annihilation. The grass is always greener but I prefer it here.

> American armed forces and weapons (and our tax dollars and political system) are what protect all of you from annihilation.

While this sounds like something Otto said in A Fish Called Wanda, I can assure Europeans that many Americans actually believe what he is saying.

Of course we can look at the history of the US in Europe. Operation Gladio ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio ) was established to start a guerrilla war in Italy or France if the parties elected were not aligned with the rulers of the US (the US barely tolerated De Gaulle). The US intervention in Italian politics in 1948 exceeded Russian meddling in Czechoslovakia that year. The CIA spied on and stole Airbus plans for US business and does this regularly for other industries. And not to forget spying on Merkel's phone calls and all of this...as the US assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland famously said in 2014 "fuck the EU".

Also, someone would have to be naive to think the US is acting in the current situation out of enormous benevolence to the Ukraine. It is, among other things, working on accomplishing what it wants to achieve for its own benefit in western Europe.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#177
post #133
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your thoughts. I visited the US in the past (hell, me best trip ever was an epic coast to coast with a Marine friend) and I'm aware of the differences. Cultural differences are ok, this is why we consider moving - and why I moved a lot around in the past. My main concern is about getting to an age where I can't really afford severe financial missteps. Our "purchase power" here in Berlin is very very high a…

Why do you find Berlin a messed up city?

Because it's a dirty, messed up hell hole, in comparison to the rest of Germany.

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#179
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including runaway inflation The same as everywhere... due to a war and pandemic . > a government and social safety net that is rapidly becoming unaffordable Completely false. Do you even read our budgets? Your debt-to-GDB was literally 3x ours last year. European countries aren't even allowed to deficit spend more than a few percent (which is what got Greece in trouble, for example.) > they pretend don’t exist I'm…

I find lectures about American society from Europeans, as the parent comment did, exceedingly ironic and misinformed considering the same issues plague both sides. Even more so as American armed forces and weapons (and our tax dollars and political system) are what protect all of you from annihilation. The grass is always greener but I prefer it here.

> Even more so as American armed forces and weapons (and our tax dollars and political system) are what protect all of you from annihilation.

It's a lot more complex than that and a lot less cartoonish. The US armed forces protect the way the world is structured, which is obviously dominated by the US. This state of affairs has been erected over the second half of the 20th century primarily to further US interests. It's relatively unique in that it has come about with incredibly little bloodshed, though there are some precedents (not at this scale, obviously). This state of affairs has worked really well for the US as a nation state and economy, and it has had a ton of positive collateral effects for many others as well, but of course nothing at this level is ever motivated by goodwill. Protecting the current world order is done out of self-interest.

The European powers have arranged themselves with and taken advantage of this reality pretty well. Yet no one (that matters) is under the delusion that any support or protection on the part of the US happens for any other reason than to further US interests and wouldn't happen if those interests weren't aligned that way. The US are a "force for good" if and only if your interests are aligned closely with theirs; find yourself in the way of US influence or economic interests, and things can get very evil. There are numerous examples for this in relatively recent history (the most recent one is probably the Julian Assange extradition ruling).

If you look closely, you'll also notice precisely how the big EU players accomodate for that reality. Obviously the US wouldn't tolerate a European rival and it's certainly much safer to keep those interests aligned, given the scale of US dominance. It would also be a lot harder, geographically, to build a powerhouse like the US on European soil, and an impossibility from a political point of view. So there's no upside to aim for overwhelming force projection capabilities on a global scale; just huge risks and downsides and crippling cost.

Yet France and the UK have nuclear arms and fairly effective militaries that are way, way smaller that the US one, hence not a true rival even on European soil, but cover the important strategic bases; namely a solid capability for limited but effective projection of force abroad and a nuclear retaliation capability. Germany, due to its geographic location, cannot have either, as it must not seem threatening to its neighbours if Europe is to have any kind of stability at all. Poland couldn't possibly chain itself to a Germany poised to pounce at them whenever a hardliner government comes to power and France would have similar reservations, they're highly exposed to attack from the northeast as well. Germany's weakness is why the current state of affairs can exist, with a EU security policy that revolves around the tightly-coupled binary of France with its strong national defense stance and Germany with is baffling lack of strength.

Yet it's widely acknowledged that Germany is a latent nuclear power and could build nuclear weapons and means of delivery very quickly with resources present on its soil if it decided to do so. Even its military, joke of a force that it currently is, is fundamentally built to scale into a very effective modern army relatively quickly (as in a couple of years), they have a lot of expertise, just not a lot of decent hardware or effective organisation. It's likely that they will do some scaling now, depending on how the Ukraine conflict develops further. If they do, it's going to be interesting to see whether that actually works the way it's intended to.

But as long as the US are both capable of and forced to intervene in any major assault in or on Europe, or suffer a huge loss of influence and severe long-term consequences to their economy, being strategically cheap in that department is a pretty solid gamble that brings a bunch of benefits the US cannot enjoy, like being able to treat with Russia and China with a lot less reservations and being perceived as a lot less of a threat (especially in case of Germany). Whether getting cozy with China is a good thing in itself is of course very much open to debate, but the EU powers simply don't have the kinds of interests in the South China Sea that the US have there, that does open up options.

> the same issues plague both sides

Some of the issues are common; most are not, or only superficially so, with what will probably be very different trajectories (by what might well be a large margin). Europe is a very complex place, too, a very old, very cramped constant battlefield (literally; up until recently, there was literally always someone at war there), it is geographically linked to half the world, deeply divided, has few natural resources (left), is perpetually struggling to not lapse right back into constant warfare (that's what the EU is for), has no common language, no common set of ideas or values, no strong common identity and it's chock full of ancient grievances and conflicts papered over very thinly. That gives rise to tensions the US don't share (and vice versa – the unique situation in the US poses challenges that Europe doesn't have).

Re: Ask HN: Europe to East Coast, does it make sense to move at 50?

#180
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stay here, make this moderately good place even better. or better yet, come to the us and bring your good influence to help get this troubled place back on track. the political situation in the united states is indeed complex and troubled, but the influence and impact of the united states on western nations is undeniable. if it does implode in some horrific way, it's hard to imagine a scenario where it doesn't drag…

If you preach to a voting base who will vote against you at every turn, good influence has no value. You can only go where you are welcome to share, where ideas can be safely and intelligently discussed, and reasonable people can come to some sort of compromise or a solution all can agree on. US politics have become too polarized, where constituents don't want solutions (evidenced by them voting for representatives w…

> Know when to hold them, and know when to fold them.

i understand and appreciate the desire to walk away. it's the classic, quiet, dignified and usually effective response to insanity. (and american politics, for the last 6 years at least, has been nothing short of insanity)

but unfortunately i don't think it works that way. i think that leaving only serves to both export polarization and make matters worse. i suspect the us is too big and the world is too small.

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