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Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

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Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#171

Post by throwaway6532 »

galoisgirl wrote: post #157
newaccount74 wrote: post #42

I wonder why ADHD gets singled out so much. If I look at the suggestions that would help people with ADHD, then I see suggestions that would help lots of people. Eg. not being reprimanded for being late when it has no consequences would help everyone. Good calendar software also helps everyone. There are lots of people who are struggling with the demands of the workplace -- in fact, I'm not sure I know anyone who doe…

> Good calendar software also helps everyone. Tell a neurotypical to use a calendar, and they'll just do it. Tell someone with ADHD to use a calendar, and they'll spend 4 hours shopping for the perfect one, then forget to check it, forget to put things in it, forget to carry it with them etc. You'll say "why can't you just keep a stupid calendar" and they'll say "the calendar doesn't work". "Use a calendar" is a piec…

Yes. In my case I only learned to use a calendar at the ripe old age of 33 and even then I can now only sometimes remember to use it.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#173

Post by lmc »

digitalsankhara wrote: post #133
lmc wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is no longer in the EU and the new visa requirements have kicked in :-( https://www.gulbenkian.co.uk/can-eu-citizens-work-in-the-uk-...

Very true. I think I should have said European region/Western Europe. Philosopically I'm a European, Brexit or not.

Me too bud. Glad you found a good place to work.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#174

Post by throwaway6532 »

vkk8 wrote: post #62
krono wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD brains are physically incapable of doing these things without assistance on a neurological/biochemical level. It's not much different to elevators being pretty convenient for everyone, but an absolute necessity to the wheelchair-bound. Edit: better fitting analogy.

ADHD isn't a discrete trait, it simply means that "you are in the lower x percentile of the population in the ability to concentrate". Even people whose concentration skills are close to the mean of the population can feel like they "have ADHD" and be diagnosed with one if they eg. work a job that requires more than average amounts of concentration which they don't have. For a good layman's discussion on this, see: h…

>Even people whose concentration skills are close to the mean of the population can feel like they "have ADHD" and be diagnosed with one if they eg. work a job that requires more than average amounts of concentration which they don't have

It's a requirement for diagnosis that it affects multiple domains of your life and not limited to just a single domain, so no.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#175

Post by throwaway6532 »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #113
vkk8 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD isn't a discrete trait, it simply means that "you are in the lower x percentile of the population in the ability to concentrate". Even people whose concentration skills are close to the mean of the population can feel like they "have ADHD" and be diagnosed with one if they eg. work a job that requires more than average amounts of concentration which they don't have. For a good layman's discussion on this, see: h…

What if I told you that ADHD actually makes it likely for you to concentrate much more on something that engages you than a typical person, to the point that you almost forget about eating, sleeping or going to the toilet? Having a tendency to hyperfocus is a pretty common ADHD trait. It's really not that simple. Squishing it all down to "ability to concentrate" isn't just an oversimplification; it misses the point e…

Exactly. People fundamentally misunderstand it in this very common way and it's such a shame. It's really the difficult in ability to regulate attention which includes both keeping your attention on something (i.e concentration) and your ability to take your attention off something and shift it to something else (i.e hyperfocus).

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#176

Post by throwaway6532 »

redisman wrote: post #11
jstx1 wrote: post #5

> Do you know / can recommend companies with neurodiversity programs? It's very easy for companies to set up something like this for the sake of appearances, I would advise against selecting your employer based on this.

The kind of company that sets up a neurodiversity program will also not be the kind of company OP is describing he likes. Big, slow, rich companies can do stuff like that but the development work will be more bureaucratic. Small startups have you wear many hats and always put out fires and cobble things together to a solution that’s fast and kind of works. But those companies will never invest heavily into HR initiat…

>Big, slow, rich companies can do stuff like that but the development work will be more bureaucratic.

Ding ding ding ding ding ding! You hit the nail on the head. I'm currently working at such a company and you're 100% right. And the bureaucratic nature of it all drives me pretty mental. It's not a good environment for me at all. I'm going back to a smaller company.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#177

Post by 5d60b053dfaa »

I was hired by Microsoft through their autism hiring cohort several years ago. From my experience, I would find it difficult to motivate myself to switch jobs and do the usual resume buffering that some people encourage, since I'm pretty much able to do my job without the specifics of my condition getting in the way. My team and my manager have always been focused on the details of my work and never on the blithe details of corporate culture. I honestly think that's just how Microsoft's culture is built, and I don't think I'd have as good a chance at succeeding in the cultures at the usual FAANG enterprises.

In addition to the job itself, I also got in touch with a contractor whose job it was to discuss the issues specifically related to me being a neurodiverse employee within the overall organization. She also acted as my job coach for a time, but recently their contract with MS expired, so I'm not sure if the same will apply to future hires. She also got in touch with my managers over the 4 years we worked together in case there were any impedance mismatches, of which there weren't any significant ones I recall. This was a massive difference from my previous jobs, where I was either left to the wayside with no explanation or disciplined into the ground for the most minor infractions that I couldn't understand (such as getting up and walking off while the CTO was talking to people at the same table at lunch).

Also part of the job were some neurodiverse focus groups where people hired through the cohort could interact, all knowing they weren't going to be judged and might have been put through the same things in life. I was also paired with an "advocate" in a separate system, who worked outside my org but volunteered to talk/socialize with people in the cohort. She eventually grew to be a good friend who deems me "family", and made good friends with her daughters. It's hard for me to overstate how much of an impact this made on my life, given that all my other efforts to make close friends fell apart during that time. Ultimately I might have been seeking something outside a standard friendship with a similarly-aged individual, and the way it happened to come together was via the cohort. This has often made me question if my only hope of finding a friendship that also maintains my interest to where it won't fall apart is with a person that already has a deep understanding of neurodiverse issues, and is prepared adjust their circumstances accordingly (one of her children had autism themselves).

My job has probably been the most significant benefit I have received in my life. It has enabled me to live independently and comfortably for many years. As such, it gives me pause to reflect on what might have happened if I didn't receive a diagnosis. People often say that there's no reason to get a diagnosis if it doesn't change what you'd do to cope with or mitigate the downsides, but me choosing to seek out a diagnosis had significant material benefits in my case. Not only that but I think I would not give my job up for anything, because even a job with comparable pay and benefits might be culturally incompatible the way I operate and choose not to socialize. Unless the company clearly states its position on neurodiverse employees, that essentially makes changing jobs a huge gamble with dire consequences if it doesn't work out (having been on the wrong side of that deal twice in my life already).

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#178

Post by throwaway6532 »

annie_muss wrote: post #90
krono wrote: post #19

No one wanted me and my ADHD and so I went out on my own. Now running a decently successful software/consultancy firm (not funded and not a single loan, I'm proud to say - edit: as in "told you I had it in me"). Of course this isn't an option for everyone, but starting your own business might be worth considering.

As a counterpoint: I also have ADHD and went out on my own. Without oversight and managing I performed absolutely terribly. The company I started produced nothing and I ended up worse off after the experience. If you think starting a company/freelancing is right for you, by all means do it. But if you have had multiple failed jobs already because of your ADHD then think long and hard about giving yourself a job that…

>As a counterpoint: I also have ADHD and went out on my own. Without oversight and managing I performed absolutely terribly. The company I started produced nothing and I ended up worse off after the experience.

Same. Was absolutely not for me. Some ADHDers go this route successfully, and especially if you can hire an assistant to handle some of the tasks that require more executive function, but there's plenty of us for whom it will just be a disaster. I think it's important for anyone thinking of going this route to give it a try and find if they're one of the ones who it does suit, but have a clear criteria that will allow you to evaluate how it's going for you and trigger an exit in a timely fashion if need be.

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#179

Post by throwaway6532 »

krono wrote: post #95
notRobot wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a business owner with ADHD - what are you thoughts on hiring people who also have the condition? Are you open to making the workplace more neurodivergent-friendly?

People with ADHD would be welcome - as long as I'm confident I can manage them (manage as in helping us both help each-other and the business). This would be the same advice I'd give to anyone hiring me. Neurodivergent-friendliness is extremely broad, but generally, yes, being less of a dick to people who can't help being the way they are is always good :)

>(manage as in helping us both help each-other and the business)

what a fantastic description

Re: Ask HN: Neurodiversity/ADHD Friendly Companies

#180

Post by goodreadthanks »

A few years back I stumbled on a good article that someone had written regarding ADHD: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html

I have since used it a few times as a tool to help people to better understand me and my quirks, I can say that it has helped in this regard and have often found that people tend to be slightly more conscious/considerate after reading about the struggles that people with ADHD have to face on a daily basis. It’s not that I want sympathy, it’s just that some people truly just do not understand that the reasons why things can be like this, yes they can take it as lazy, tardiness, my being uninterested or just generally unmotivated or side tracked but the reality of the matter is that these are aspects that I still struggle with on a daily basis and I don’t feel like I could ever reach a point where I have defeated them. So the understanding on their part does go a long way in helping me to feel better about myself and in turn, more capable of doing a good job. That’s what counts to them?

I would suggest that you give the article a read through too, or anyone who is wondering if they perhaps fall somewhere within this spectrum as it may help them to better understand themselves too.

I can recommend consulting if you have a good handle on your ability to keep yourself motivated over the long term, that you can communicate your position well and have the ability, to some degree to meet practical deadlines.

If you do not have a handle on things like this, stop to think first at the amount of damage you could do to a business by becoming a consultant and working for them because you need to be a strong person to pull that off for many, many years running.

Personally and although experience has helped to improve on these aspects, I see them as fundamental flaws that I have little control over even on the best of days. In reality what I need too, is a good crew that can help to keep me on track or simply patch up the stuff that I have since left behind. That and no projects that last for more than a few months :-)

Best of luck in life to you all!

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