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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#171

Post by m-ee »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38
varjag wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patents expire after 20 years.

Looking up their patents ( https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation?page=3... ), looks like their earliest patents are from 1998, so those should be expired already. That said, there's 36 pages of patents that seem related, so I'm sure that newly made e-ink technology will be covered by the newer patents.

You can also make things tough on competitors by filing a new patent that’s different enough from the original to get approved, but close enough to the original that it would be difficult to use the older patent without infringing on the new one.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#172

Post by wott »

_joel wrote: post #35
cannaceo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the broke musicians I know have thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in gear.

The broke musicians I know can barely afford to pay their rent.

Both can be true at the same time.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#173

Post by _abox »

therein wrote: post #156
danaos wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of Clearink? [1] They are using a different technology which appears to be superior. One can hope they will be reaching market soon. https://clearinkdisplays.com/

Is that what one would find in those color e-ink HiSense phones?

No they usually use Kaleido. They don't specify but it matches with the poor color saturation and 4096 colors.

Kaleido is a b/w eink panel with a colour LCD overlaid.

There's tech that looks much better like eInk's ACeP (much stronger color saturation) but it needs multiple flashing refreshes to update so it's not feasible for interactive devices. They're just being marketed for advertising and the like.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#174

Post by GekkePrutser »

mottosso wrote: post #143
m-p-3 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I hope their patents expire ASAP. They're hampering the technological progress of e-paper devices with their iron grip on the technology.

I can see what you mean but on the other hand; are they really, though? If they hadn't come up with the technology and written the patents in the first place, we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

True, but there should be mandatory tech licensing at least so they can't just suffocate progress.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#175

Post by 8ytecoder »

m-ee wrote: post #171
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking up their patents ( https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-corporation?page=3... ), looks like their earliest patents are from 1998, so those should be expired already. That said, there's 36 pages of patents that seem related, so I'm sure that newly made e-ink technology will be covered by the newer patents.

You can also make things tough on competitors by filing a new patent that’s different enough from the original to get approved, but close enough to the original that it would be difficult to use the older patent without infringing on the new one.

Evergreening. US patent system has no provision to ban this practice. India, for example, requires the patent to be substantially different from the original. It’s the same trick used by drug manufacturers.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#176

Post by Grustaf »

mottosso wrote: post #143
m-p-3 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I hope their patents expire ASAP. They're hampering the technological progress of e-paper devices with their iron grip on the technology.

I can see what you mean but on the other hand; are they really, though? If they hadn't come up with the technology and written the patents in the first place, we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

You can come up with technology without patenting it though. If there were no patents then presumably companies would find other ways to make money from inventions, for example by being the best at producing them or improving them more frequently.

Consider Linux, a bunch of companies have made bank from that.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#177

Post by dpritchett »

matsemann wrote: post #167
dpritchett wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops you from unlocking the parental controls? If that’s not a recurring issue for you then you may not have an executive function disorder.

(I don't have a disorder, but) for me the case is often that I just mindlessly click my HN bookmark, open reddit app, lichess puzzle etc to kill a few minutes. Just the popup telling me that it's blocked is enough to make my brain realize what I'm about to do and abort. I could just click the button to override, but my "mindlessly browsing" mode got disturbed and suddenly I'm conscious about it happening.

For a few decades I tried and failed to make hostfile blocks, guided access mode, browser focus-tracking extensions, day planners, public accountability, timers, and more work for me.

What actually works as I count the weeks to my fortieth birthday is a fragile and ever-shifting combination of adderall, sleep, diet, exercise, therapy, e-ink devices, and the courage to be open up and be vulnerable with those who depend on me at work and at home.

Splurging on a color laser printer and an e-ink tablet have given me two more ways to have a hope of staying on task a bit more every day.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#178

Post by weberer »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #158
lostcolony wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Volume doesn't always equate to greater profit. High margin luxury goods are a valid business strategy too. I'm sure they're doing the thing that their data points to as netting them the largest profit.

FWIW, I believe this has been debunked. Volume (when there is a net margin) always equates to greater profit until market saturation. Veblen goods rarely work for niche markets but can work for commodity markets (see cars and watches for examples).

Then why are there diamond cartels?

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#179

Post by tehjoker »

mottosso wrote: post #143
m-p-3 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I hope their patents expire ASAP. They're hampering the technological progress of e-paper devices with their iron grip on the technology.

I can see what you mean but on the other hand; are they really, though? If they hadn't come up with the technology and written the patents in the first place, we wouldn't even be here talking about it.

In all likelihood, they did the initial research with public funding or built on such research. Since the 1980s academia has been a get rich scheme where the public funds research and then the professors go to the private sector to make money.

I think the inventors should be rewarded, but it seems misguided to do it by making them have to exploit an exclusive hold on their invention which blockades progress. Why not just give them prize money? You could set objective standards whereby a new invention that gets produced over X quantity by any party gets Y prize money.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#180

Post by schwartzworld »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #48
Naga wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

> After all, "idiot" used to refer to mentally disabled people and few would consider that word to be particularly offensive today.

Sure, if your friend lovingly jokes that you're an "idiot" you won't be offended, but the same can be said for most insults or slurs.

However, insults that previously were medical terms can carry particular heft for some people. Try telling the women in your life they are being "hysterical" when they are unhappy with you. Both law and medicine stopped using those words for a reason.

Personally, I wouldn't like being called an idiot, and I would take issue with that word being used to describe my loved ones.

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