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Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

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Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#171

Post by dvdgsng »

rurban wrote: post #155

I'm manager of about 100 independent people in Germany, where almost nobody uses Facebook. Maybe 5 of them. We are currently organizing via 5-7 WhatsApp groups, and in a couple of months we need to switch, by my estimate. This is only India, but the rest will follow, and the change is not acceptable at all. So I'm preparing now a slow switch to Signal, which seems to be most acceptable here. So far nobody took the in…

You really should have a look into Matrix/Element, esp when you are a Business.

Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#172

Post by [deleted] »

andreygrehov wrote: post #86
bitcharmer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what exactly are you trying to hide The contents of my messages, photos of my kids, who I talk to and when, my location. Is that enough for you?

Do they explicitly say it? If yes, how do they use this information? Any phone uploads your photos to a cloud these days.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#173

Post by andreygrehov »

Krasnol wrote: post #151
andreygrehov wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(facepalm) > Who the hell do you think you are to decide what is in my best interest? I'm not deciding anything for you. I can only recommend. You either share your data or you don't. It's your decision. > If I go on a page for fishing stuff, the shop is free to advertise certain fishing stuff products they want to push. ON THEIR PAGE. Of course they can do so. Except the times when they want to maximize their ad rev…

> I'm not deciding anything for you. I can only recommend. You either share your data or you don't. It's your decision. I may decide because I know how ad-blockers work (and even there it drips through as you must know best) but most out there don't decide. They are being robbed along the way without even knowing it. You rob them of their data, their attention and divert it afterwards for your profit. You're being pa…

Don't you think you should blame the shop owner and not the ad company in this case? At the end of the day, it's the shop owner who came to us, not we came to them.

Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#174

Post by Yetanfou »

andreygrehov wrote: post #80
Yetanfou wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious here? Working in AdTech - which does (or at least should) translate to "working on undoing the good which used to be the public internet" - you most certainly realise, and possibly salivate over the breadth and width of Facebook's means to profile 'net users, whether those be actual Facebook (as in "Facebook the site, Instagram, WhatsApp and whatever other company they reeled in") users or otherwise.…

I am 100% serious. I get the "ad-free public internet" nostalgia, but ads is an inevitable component of our economy. The good old internet was good only because it was something new and unknown. The very first newspapers did not have ads. 100 years after, Benjamin Franklin pulled the trigger and started a column for advertisers to promote their products and services. Ads are valuable. They can make a huge difference…

Reputable AdTech firms is comparable to responsible tobacco firms, both are peddling unhealthy goods, both try to whitewash their image by claiming to be above the fray. Also, it's actually in a user's best interest to allow the data to be shared. Otherwise doctors will see ads about vaping and fishers will see ads about the latest JavaScript IDEs - no, just no. First of all I can only assume that doctors are more likely to read publications which are related to their profession and as such can be targeted for advertising there, just like fishermen will read publications related to fishing and as such can be targeted. Ads on Javascript IDEs belong in publications related to programming, ads about vaping belong in the dustbin or, if you insist, in lifestyle magazines and similar vacuous outlets. There is no need to follow those doctors around to pester them with ads related to their profession when they turn to the daily news, just like those fishermen don't need to be targeted when they happen to open an unrelated site. In short, there is no need for active profiling. Since AdTech insists on doing this anyway it is in users best interest to a) make sure there is as little data to be gathered by AdTech firms and b) to make sure they don't see any ad, period. You - as in the AdTech industry - made your bed, now lie in it.

Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#175

Post by bromonkey »

tmpz22 wrote: post #131
Ansil849 wrote: post #89

I have stopped communicating with friends and family who try communicating via insecure apps. I send a response saying I will only read Signal or similar messages from them. Some think this is a hardline, but my security is important to me, and true friends and family need to respect that. It's kind of like how my sister is vegan, so when she comes over for dinner, I cook vegan dishes for her. I respect and accommoda…

Does your family's threat model actually include targeted surveillance by US intelligence agencies? There are many reasons to switch off whatsapp, but I don't believe it should be considered insecure unless you are a journalist, activist, or citizen of a country with severe oppressive regimes: China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Russia, etc. If your threat model DOES include US intelligence agencies, you shouldn't use…

How secure something is doesn't change based on the threat model.

Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#176

Post by andreygrehov »

bitcharmer wrote: post #144
andreygrehov wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The information we share with the other Facebook Companies. includes your account registration information (such as your phone number), transaction data, service-related information, information on how you interact with others (including businesses) when using our Services, mobile device information, your IP address, and may include other information identified in the Privacy Policy section entitled ‘Information We…

The very block of text you quoted is terrifying for me. Why am I getting the impression there is no convincing you about how bad for our privacy this is?

Because half of what you said is wrong. Your original message states that WhatsApp shares contents of your messages, your location, photos of your kids, etc with third-parties.

> The contents of my messages, photos of my kids, who I talk to and when, my location. Is that enough for you?

Look, this is simply not truth. You are ex-aggregating things and create a panic out of nothing. If you don't like them knowing your location, fine, turn Location Services off. As for media, nobody cares about photos of your kids. It's a not monetizable content.

Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#177

Post by sjs382 »

While I don't use nor know anyone on WhatsApp, I have a few friends that use FB Messenger (which I don't have on my phone) for most of their communication.

Sometimes I get an email along the lines of "X sent you a message on FB Messenger". When I do, I'll jump on the computer, chat a bit, and then remind them "I don't use FB on my phone, so if I'm not near a computer reach me @ XXX-XXX-XXXX or name@example.com". Everyone I'm in contact with has at least a phone number or email address.

Now, I'm 35 so not really in the age group that has 10 group chats, each with 10 people, that have all been going on for many years. You might be in a demographic where that happens more often.

Even so, consider this even though it's not exactly what WhatsApp gives you; it might be useful/healthy to reject the FOMO and half-disconnect (still keeping yourself available, but on fewer services).

Re: Ask HN: How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

#180

Post by sjs382 »

pilooch wrote: post #105
Ansil849 wrote: post #89

I have stopped communicating with friends and family who try communicating via insecure apps. I send a response saying I will only read Signal or similar messages from them. Some think this is a hardline, but my security is important to me, and true friends and family need to respect that. It's kind of like how my sister is vegan, so when she comes over for dinner, I cook vegan dishes for her. I respect and accommoda…

This works fine until a point in life at which communicating with others and answering to others, meaning you are available for them, whatever the app, is more important than anything else. Not meaning to not boycott such apps with those you can, just giving another pov from elsewhere in life. Most of my phones are rooted and without google for years, but sometimes... Life is short, human communication is deep and fr…

> meaning you are available for them

I agree. That's why I'm available on 3 platforms that cover everyone I'm in contact with (phone, sms and email) and I can be choosy about any others I'm on.

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