Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

news.ycombinator.com

171–180 of 240 posts

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely. I don’t understand the recent trend to believe that we need to get kids into software engineering as soon as they pop out of the birth canal. My friend is an accountant. If he asked me for advice on how to make spreadsheets more fun for his kid I’d think he had something against his kid. In the words of Pink Floyd “Hey! Nerds! Leave them kids alone!”

We do it with maths and languages. Why not programming? It is just another tool exactly like math and language.

Do many people grow up with a love of math due to this common practice, though? I would have thought the opposite.

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#172
post #120

Didn't work: - BASIC, Ruby, Python, Java setups + intros, tutorials. - LEGO Mindstorms - Scratch, Squeak - Coding classes / camps Note that I "made these things "available" but never pushed. I'd set up the environment, show him to to edit and run the code, and pointed him to tutorials. After some time went by I'd show him the next thing. Rinse and repeat. Worked: A Texas Instruments programmable calculator. He read t…

> A Texas Instruments programmable calculator. He read the manual, played with it a bit, then found out he could automate some of his homework. Then found out he could make simple games. Then fairly impressive games. Some thing never change. This is literally how I started programming too. "Hey, I can automate my homework" -> "Wait, I can write a program to play poker with all the time I saved by not doing homework."

Wait what you guys actually save time by automating things?

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#173

Your kid is 7. I'm pretty sure hat I was eating dirt when I was 7. If he has showed you he's interested in programming then go ahead, but make sure you're not projecting your own interests onto your kid. It'll lead to resentment in 7 or 8 years.

He says his kid asked for programming books. Doesn't seem like it's being forced to me. Could it be that maybe, just maybe, both father and son enjoy programming?

You may be right, but I wanted to share an anecdote anyway.

When I was 8 years old, my dad offered to buy me a go-kart. I think he was concerned I spent too much time indoors, and wanted surprise me with an exciting idea. I knew that my dad didn't have a lot of money, and I also knew he'd be angry if he bought the go-kart and I never used it, so I lied and said I didn't want one.

My point is that there's often more going on inside children's brains than we realize, even at a young age. The kid could be asking for that present because he thinks it will make his father happy, for example. Just something to think about.

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#174
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, I started programming on my own at 7 with no guidance. Mainly because my IBM PC booted into a BASIC window if you didn't put the DOS disk in. I asked my mom to get my some magazines from the library so I could copy the games in them. So it's not totally odd for a 7 year old (or I was odd, which is quite possible).

That's not a counterpoint, that's just reinforcing their point. It's a good idea to open up a child to as many early experiences as possible, but don't project your interests on them. They'll find out what they like on their own.

They like fortnite!

My wife wishes my son wasn't so into gaming. I'm like, just push him to do gaming more, force him to game, then he will get into watercoloring.

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually making accounting fun for kids is also a good idea and should be encouraged.

Well you could say that about any vocation.

Sure. The basics of a lot of vocations is something that is very useful to be able to do for yourself. A bit of plumbing, a bit of carpentry, a bit of cooking, a bit of cleaning, a bit of accounting, a bit of public speaking, etc. Pretty much the 101 of being an adult.

Or put another way, a skill or service being a vocation just means it's useful enough for enough people, so that society can support it functioning as a distinct job (or set of jobs). The more useful it is, the more demand there is for that job - but that also means the more useful it is to know the basics yourself. A random Joe or Jane doesn't really need to know how to x-ray stuff to find material defects, but they sure as hell will benefit from knowing how to wash their own clothes, fix their own faucets, balance their own books, ... and how to automate this and that in their use of computers.

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#176
I used Python and taught my 10yo son by working with him to design a text adventure game. While we were doing it together, he was engaged and enjoying it. His ability to understand and learn was never a challenge.

The challenge was that actually programming was apparently not his interest. He was more interested in story and puzzle design, and as he got older those interests expanded while programming just completely fell away.

Most people could program if they wanted, assuming they had an adequate teacher. But if they do not have the desire and drive, then it's not going to happen.

Edit - now I also recall that before the Python game effort, I got him started on Scratch, gave him a goal to make a simple Mario clone, and left him to it. A day later, he had made good progress but quickly lost interest and no longer wanted to work on it or talk about it.

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But accounting, or at least grasping personal finance, is a practical gift in a way that many others aren't at an introductory level. For example if you only want to be a manager at McDonald's you have to learn the most basic of accounting tasks.

“Accounting” and “personal finance” and “spreadsheets” are three very different things that seem to have been used as if they were interchangeable in the subthread beginning with dave_sid’s hypothetical about an accountant asking about making spreadsheets more fun for kids.

They're very related, though. Kind of like "cooking", "personal nutrition" and "kitchen utensils".

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#178
I have a 7 year old and a 10 year old and have done lots and lots of volunteering teaching kids to code (via the Raspberry Pi Foundation's Code Club and CoderDojo schemes). My boys are very into building things with redstone in Minecraft and I've done quite a bit of programming with them.

What I would say is that 7 is still very young - the important thing at this age is that they are enjoying it, which it sounds like your son is and with you as a mentor, I don't think you can go too far wrong. If you weren't a programmer, I might be pointing you in various directions but don't think I need to.

I'm mostly thinking about resources that might be helpful. It's worth being aware that on the Raspberry Pi there is a Python API which might be a good way to introduce Python for a Minecraft fan. There are some articles about in old issues of Hello World magazine (PDFs available for free here: https://helloworld.raspberrypi.org/issues). You might find the magazine interesting generally. There's also a book Adventures in Minecraft by Martin O'Hanlan and David Whale. Typing ability is one of the big issues with python at that age though I find (that and the ability to make syntax errors which you don't get in Scratch!).

In terms of Scratch, there's the Code Club curriculum https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/codeclub which isn't perfect, but is fairly well road-tested.

The BBC Microbit is also fun and not too expensive if you are looking for something a bit different and has a visual programming interface. I prefer that to lots of the robot kits etc. out there because it's so flexible and you can extend it into electronics if you want to. Having said that Lego Boost went done extremely well with our boys and is well thought through, but not cheap.

But the important thing at this age is that they enjoy it, so I think there's an art in terms of following what interests them and encouraging them with that.

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#179
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely. I don’t understand the recent trend to believe that we need to get kids into software engineering as soon as they pop out of the birth canal. My friend is an accountant. If he asked me for advice on how to make spreadsheets more fun for his kid I’d think he had something against his kid. In the words of Pink Floyd “Hey! Nerds! Leave them kids alone!”

To be fair, software engineering connects better to the interests of STEM-ish kids (video games, robotics, electronics) than spreadsheets ever could.

Depends on video game and the parts of spreadsheets.

For an extreme example, Eve Online is a game that makes kids do feats in spreadsheets that set them up straight for careers in accounting and supply chain management.

But less extreme: if your game exposes numbers, spreadsheets are useful to play with them. If I knew more about Excel when I was 13, I'd probably retype unit stats from StarCraft into it and do the maths that I ended up doing in my head. Spreadsheets have plotting functions, which are a fun thing to play with. Also tracking my own magazines & CDs is something I remember doing as a kid - entirely doable in Excel, though in my case, this was my first exposure to Access and RDBMSes in general.

Also worth noting that a proper spreadsheet like Excel is in itself a functional reactive programming REPL. FRP is what you do when you play with formulas.

Re: Ask HN: Please share your experience teaching your kids to program

#180
Not a parent, but I was a child, and want to give my perspective from my memories learning my father's profession; writing.

We always had computers typewriters around the house, and I was fascinated by the look, smell, and sound of my father writing. And I just began doing it myself, probably with a small amount of guidance from him around the mechanics.

I ended up getting pretty good at prose by the time I was 9 or 10 and wrote a novella when I 14 (which was thankfully never published or distributed!). I don't write for a living but the skills stayed with me and of course have been very useful in all kinds of avenues.

I think, though, that if I had been encouraged to do 90 minute learning sessions with my father, I wouldn't have been so interested. There was a joy in finding my own path into that world, and if/when I do have children of my own this is something I will keep in mind that there's a fine line between sparking interest, and trying to force an interest.

Post reply on HN