Ask HN: Who's Hiring? (take 2)

How'd you get the .edu domain if you're a company?

"It doesn't really matter if you are Indian or not. Your argument should stand for you, not for the country you belong to"

Oh I completely agree. I was just wondering if you thought I was some Non Indian "bashing" Indians. Good to know you are not.

"(1) Most companies in the world (including US) aren't startups. I don't see how that case is special to India.

(2) Most companies in the world (including US) aren't doing technically sophisticated things. I don't see how that case is special to India."

First adressing the point you make above, I did follow up with a paragraph (in the OP) on how Indian companies are mostly outsourcing based or ODC's attempting to do low quality work their parent organizations shift to India. In other words I am making a direct Causal link between the fact that most compoanies in India do bodyshopping/outsourcing to why great enginers find working here frustrating.I've edited the order of paragraphs to represent that emphasis if it weren't clear.

You were the one who chose that sentence as specifically "offensive". Pointing out that this isn't specific to India isn't the same as being "offended".

If you are saying that there are companies, especially startups in India that match the technological sophistication of say Facebook or Google, I'd love to hear specific cases. I hold my opinions very loosely and am quite willing to be corrected/

That said, "Even if data shows otherwise, it is unfair to put a qualifier "by and large" and then start the bashing. That is a safety device you have adopted."

I am not "bashng" anyone. I don't need a "safety device". What I wrote is what I genuinely believe. I am not a politician trying to convince anyone to think as I do!

This is a completely wrong argument. What "the data shows" is what is important. Instead of trying to guess my intent ("bashing" , "offending" and so on, without much to base these judgments on), why don't you counter my argument?

My argument is that outsourcing companies are very common and sophisticated startups are very very rare (practically no existent and less than say about 15 or so in number at most) in India and consequently there isn't a large market for really good engineers, who mostly migrate to the USA.

If you believe I am wrong,here is a challenge for you. why don't you name some Indian startups (say 10 would do) which are (a) funded (b) doing technologically sophisticated software? That way all of us benefit.

hypernumbers.com (Seedcamp '07)

Edinburgh, Bonnie Scotland - must be able to work in the EU.

Engineer with Javascript and exposure to functional programming (preferably Erlang). Contact gordon AT hypernumbers DOT com for details.

By and large I would agree with the summary you have provided of the "high-tech" scenario in India. Though, I would also take exception to some of the statements you have made. I have worked for a year in one of the services companies (I detest the word body-shoppers) you've mentioned. I have also worked in Bangalore for an ODC of a US technology products company. It is true to say that most of the work done in these organizations is not really technically sophisticated.

The part of your note which did not resonate well with me was this: "except a couple of very small unfunded startups, most are just trying to copy existing ideas and don't need any skills beyond pretty generic php mysql etc". - I'm not sure what kind of research would give you the necessary insight to make such a statement. For a tech guy from India who has worked globally- such a statement undermines your whole writeup.

Your next statement also disappointed me greatly "great engineers in India should be able to telecommute for the startups advertised here." Can you estimate the carbon footprint created by such a telecommute? - The Carbon Footprint generated by a single roundtrip flight between India and USA / Canada overshoots the annual footprint of an average Indian by 62%. To suggest a telecommuting option between the India and US to me is absurd and environmentally criminal.

Also, the wishlist you have given for Indian startups does exist. You just need to look for it in the right places. Such information would not come to you on the headlines of ET but is available deep in the web somewhere.

I have realized that "great" (I'm not sure how you define such a term) engineers in India like to be courted by companies as they feel that by gaining intellectual prowess they should just have to sit back and wait for companies to come to them. This is especially true if one has been working for a large US Tech MNCs. This is not really the mindset for entrepreneurship. If you are really looking to join an Indian startup as a part of the founding team- reach out to them and let them know what you can offer instead of waiting for them to add a job listing here.

@ronscenzi,

Thank you for your cogent reply. I claim no infallibility and am glad to be corrected when I goof up. That said,

"I have worked for a year in one of the services companies (I detest the word body-shoppers) you've mentioned."

Hmm I used "body shoppers" as a functional description. Why should you beoffended? isn't that what these companies do? (I've workd for these companies too btw. So I amnot putting myself up on some predestal)

" I have also worked in Bangalore for an ODC of a US technology products company. It is true to say that most of the work done in these organizations is not really technically sophisticated."

Ok great. we have some grounds for agreement.

"The part of your note which did not resonate well with me was this: "except a couple of very small unfunded startups, most are just trying to copy existing ideas and don't need any skills beyond pretty generic php mysql etc". - I'm not sure what kind of research would give you the necessary insight to make such a statement."

Ok what I meant by this was that a good chunk of startups in India are duplicating success stories from the USA and do not necessarily need people with skills in say Erlang or Haskell or Kernel Hacking expertise and so on. Please, look at the job descriptions of Indian startups? How many ask for or requiredeep Javascript or MySQL experience? Most are just throwing up random webpages.

I know a few exceptions but most startups in India lack either technical or business sophistication (Yes I know this will be controversial. I stand by this claim. Anyone "offended" by this, please provide lots of counter examples or an argument that most startups in India re doing very cutting edge work)

"great engineers in India should be able to telecommute for the startups advertised here."

Umm what is wrong with this opinion? Ecological footprints? I wasn't thinking of ecology. Frankly I don't care. In my ideal wold anyone would be able to work for any company, irrespective of nationality without wrestling with arcane visa regulations and so on. telecommuting is the only way I know for this to happen.

"Also, the wishlist you have given for Indian startups does exist. You just need to look for it in the right places."

Why don't you give me specific examples of such startups? Anyone can make vague generalizations like "look for it i the right places" . What are "the right places"? Give me some concrete examples.

"If you are really looking to join an Indian startup as a part of the founding team- reach out to them and let them know what you can offer instead of waiting for them to add a job listing here"

Where did I say I am looking for a startup to join? I have enough work (the non outsourced, technically ultra sophisticated kind ;-)) for years.