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Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

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Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#161

Post by zem »

msgodel wrote: post #126
ilc wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call this "Wearing your uniform." You need to look like you are a person who would be doing the job. You wouldn't hire a gardner with smooth hands, clean shoes, and no dirt under their nails would you? Car mechanics, you can see it in their hands, and the way they act around cars. Every profession has its tells, from what we wear, to our physical traits etc. After a while, you know if someone adds up or not. But pa…

Not an older person but I genuinely don't like wearing jeans and t shirts and I never have. t shirts make me feel like I'm trapped and jeans are stiff and unpleasant (and always feel shaped wrong.) Also wearing what are essentially corporate ads on my body just feels brain dead. Shorts and a Hawaiian shirt are comfortable but I guess that's still not ok in the office even though everyone wants to pretend they don't c…

not sure about shorts, but would a company that accepted tshirts and jeans really say no to hawaiian shirts and slacks?

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#162

Post by segmondy »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #160
segmondy wrote: post #155

Yup, and it's rooted in reality too. Older folks might have more wisdom, but MOST, not all of them are slower, it takes them longer to figure out things, learn new things, they are more closed minded. I say this as an older folk clocking 50, I was very open minded to hiring older folks as a younger person and have done many, and I have been burned the most by older folks that interview great, can talk the talk but ca…

I chase my tail a lot less (with failed refactorings) these days. Can’t help but be much faster than when I did. Tortoise vs. hare.

I think the challenge is that software is rarely baked in these days, if they can find themselves in a slow moving enterprise environment, most will be fine, but if they are in a "modern" day shop that's always chasing the new shiny framework and library then it's a struggle.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#163

Post by stonecharioteer »

I worked for a month at a place where the median age was 27. I'm 38. I felt tired by their wasted energy. They'd fight over tiny details, have arguments about things that don't matter. Hearing Devs with 3 years working experience tell me they can architect anything fatigued me. They talked about their crazy architecture like it was going to change it all. I left in a month, but I'd have left in a week if I didn't need the money.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#164

Post by pyb »

dzonga wrote: post #40

I would rather work with "old" engineers rather than 25/30 year old "senior" engineers. Places with older engineers means: 1. things are done properly 2. less to break 3. no need to be on call 4. excellent WLB (no grind n burnout culture) 5. excellent mentoring and learning opportunities 6. sniper / laser focus on business fundamentals / making money rather than making noise on the internet streets

Agree with 1-4, 5 and 6 not so correlated with age in my experience.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#165

Post by lucyjojo »

zem wrote: post #161
msgodel wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an older person but I genuinely don't like wearing jeans and t shirts and I never have. t shirts make me feel like I'm trapped and jeans are stiff and unpleasant (and always feel shaped wrong.) Also wearing what are essentially corporate ads on my body just feels brain dead. Shorts and a Hawaiian shirt are comfortable but I guess that's still not ok in the office even though everyone wants to pretend they don't c…

not sure about shorts, but would a company that accepted tshirts and jeans really say no to hawaiian shirts and slacks?

from experience. depends.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#166

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

tuyguntn wrote: post #87
mindtricks wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is basically ageism. It's not accurate and should be coached out. Flip the question for a 25 year old: * Will they be on on-call or out partying with their friends? * Are they committed to the work or will they hop to another company once trained? * Are they able to work within our codebase or just jump to the next hot thing? These types of questions are ridiculous for both sides.

> should be coached out No, it won't work. Biologically, 25 years old without a family responsibilities will not get it anyway. If you are 25 years old, single and your friends are similar to you, what would you do? Most I know are working 12-14 hour/day, because they eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at work.

Worth noting that this basically doesn't work long term, and is much easier to maintain if it's different work (a job and a new enterprise).

You'll notice that you become less efficient over time. I recommend taking a long weekend and coming back and keeping to 8 hours. It's a great discipline if you want to go further in your career.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#167

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #75
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much experience does it take to be "senior" in that case? Has the 25 y-o engineer been working for 10 years or are they just diluting the "senior" term?

From my experience the "senior" term has been significantly diluted in the zero-interest-rate period.

Yeah people started calling me senior when I had 3 years of data experience so I totally agree.

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#168

Post by p1dda »

pragmatic wrote: post #100
p1dda wrote: post #15

I'm 53 (physician) and would like to pursue a second career in programming but realising it's really hard.

Your experience would be incredibly valuable. However are you sure you want to take the cut in prestige/pay? In the medtech space there's a huge need for project mangers, etc wish medical experience. So knowing how to code and how to query databases along with all that medical knowledge would be a super power. However, I can't imagine you'd be happy as a junior engineer churning out react code but maybe?

I can take a pay cut definitely. I am a hobby programmer writing simple programs for my own use in Python but I have signed up for a university Python course to get better. I was thinking of getting involved in an open-source project but where do I find them? Very grateful for any help!

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#169

Post by p1dda »

blindriver wrote: post #72
p1dda wrote: post #15

I'm 53 (physician) and would like to pursue a second career in programming but realising it's really hard.

Honestly, pursue it as a hobby but don't try to make a career out of it. This is the worst hiring environment I've seen since the dotcom bust, and there are tens of thousands of fresh CS grads that are unemployed. If you want to go to school because you're interested, then that's cool. But to think you can make a living out of it when you're 30 years older than the tens of thousands of kids that you're competing agai…

Thank you for your insight about the hiring environment! What are your thoughts about getting involved in an open-source project or something else to get some more experience?

Re: Ask HN: Is ageism in tech still a problem?

#170

Post by bsenftner »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #103
drillsteps5 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that mismatch is cultural, and my point was that there might not be a solution because it might not necessarily be a problem. 50yo is MUCH LESS likely to work well with bunch of under-30 yo, esp, if the leadership is all in that age. Is the company that much more likely to blow up and go out of business due to inexperience of the younger guys at the helm? Perhaps, but it's their company and that's how you gai…

Good points. One of the reasons I stopped looking for work, is because the places that did stuff I wanted to do, didn't want me around. The places that would have hired me, didn't have stuff I wanted to do. They didn't want me, because I'm who I am. In a couple of cases, they didn't even try to hide it. I took it personal, because it was personal. That's the thing about cultural bigotry. It's an emotional, reptile-br…

You sound like me. I gave up looking for work, created my own CMS and had that basically in a ready state when ChatGPT4 came out, and I've turned my CMS into an AI integrated office suite. A family law firm needed tech support, so I made my "AI CMS" attorney friendly and started looking around at investors... everyone is insane. I've professionally been through a serious gauntlet in my prior career, where people start to fail to believe when I list the famous projects I have been a key part. I know serious hard work, and the investor class today is expecting no less than creating an institutionalized economic slavery engine. The professional institutional abuse expectation is ripe. None of this can stand, can last.

With the loss of zero interest financing, this industry is about to meet reality. Say good by to "campus" appearing work environments for the majority.

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