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Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

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Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#161

Post by bluSCALE4 »

tony_cannistra wrote: post #21
bluSCALE4 wrote: post #10

Not sure but if Trump wins and turns H1B visas on its head again, we might see a reversal.

Enough. The number of available H1-B visas available each year has not changed since 2005. https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/h1b-visa...

Trump created huge delays and people I worked with that went on vacation were stuck in India. Lots of companies were put on notice for abusing H1B and legitimate candidates were impacted.

The issues was never the quantity, it’s been the quality. I believe companies like Deloitte had created corruption pipelines where money got you on the path to H1B.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#162

Post by impute »

j0hnyl wrote: post #94
ryandrake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…

Strange, I've never had a company not go up from their initial offer. It's almost like it's baked in.

IME I've found there to be the expectation that there's about 10-15% available for negotiation to make the candidate feel like they got a win. Of course, some exceptions may apply.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#163

Post by XajniN »

jghn wrote: post #113
ike2792 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Regardless of reason, you need to be prepared to walk away if you are serious about negotiating.

I'll take this a step further and say that the optimal time to be job hunting is *before* you're motivated to find a new job: either wanting to leave your current one or finding yourself unemployed. People always talk about competing offers, but your negotiating power will never be higher than when you literally don't care if you get an offer or not. If I'm perfectly content in my current gig, the only way I'm leavin…

Unless you’re seeking your first job in a specific industry, this advice is the most valuable in this thread. Competing offers are beneficial only if you’re already a well-known figure in your niche.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#164

Post by XajniN »

gaws wrote: post #138
Closi wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe instead of: > [Me]: I’d like $Y You could try: > [Me]: That matches my base salary at the moment but my current employer gives me healthcare and a car allowance so I would be out of pocket if I moved from my current job. In addition I currently am eligible for a 10% bonus. Would you consider an additional $5k/yr to cover some of this? I would love to move… although I can’t justify a pay cut, but think this is a…

[Company]: We don't care. Your offer is for $X. Are you interested or not?

I am not.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#165

Post by jnwatson »

credit_guy wrote: post #150
jnwatson wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HR really likes folks like you, because you're selling your services at a discount. I got one FAANG to increase their offer to 2.5 times the original amount. I'm fine with taking a bit of heat from the team if I get paid that much.

If you got an offer bumped up by 2.5x, was the original one above your current comp? If it was below, then it was a total low-ball, but if it was above, it follows that you tolerated being underpaid at your job. By maybe a factor of 3. Are you sure you are in a position to give salary negotiation advice?

The original offer was about 50% above my current comp.

Sure I was underpaid, but that's life working for a startup run by a friend.

After this situation, I heard of several situations where this company generally starts low and can go high.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#166

Post by jmalicki »

Suppafly wrote: post #140
medvezhenok wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The magic incantation is competing offer . If they know you have alternatives, they are much more likely to negotiate. In fact the modern version of this guide is try to get several offers and negotiate them against each other (not you versus the company). Might be more difficult in the current market.

>The magic incantation is competing offer. Depends on the company. If you were applying where I work and tried to use a competing offer to get a better offer, they'd just suggest you go with the other offer.

So in other words, the offer is non-negotiable?

In that case you could still work for that company, but would your company offer a higher salary with any other negotiating strategy?

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#167

Post by mixmastamyk »

cutemonster wrote: post #160
mixmastamyk wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few decades ago everyone learned C/C+ in school. Then might take an interest in gui programming, later read a book on what makes good ui. Over a decade or three, quite doable.

Yes but not firmware and circuits! :-) Unless they studied sth like electrical engineering?

Firmware is C (and I forgot to mention asm) and a few special rules about boot. Less difficult than tedious in modern times.

Electronics is a different subject, but I took physics in school and dabbled in soldering etc. Amateur electronics at least is pretty approachable if you have the interest.

Computer Architecture class bridges the two nicely. There you go—well rounded.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#168

Post by chatmasta »

eps wrote: post #72
ryandrake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…

Negotiations require two parties willing to negotiate. In your example one is not, so negotiations aren't possible.

Successful negotiations require more than two parties. That’s the whole point. If you are only getting one offer then you are leaving money on the table. You need to “create a market” by getting multiple. And if you’ve only got one, then stall as much as you can to find another (which could be a counteroffer from your current employer).

“Negotiate from a position of strength” is evergreen advice.

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#169

Post by chatmasta »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #158
ryandrake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But man, a lot of the people out there absolutely still do not grok negotiating. Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? Every comp negotiation I've ever had with a company has gone kind of like this: [Company]: Here's your offer for $X. [Me]: I'd like $Y. [Company]: Your offer is for $X. [Me]: Well,…

>Unless you have some kind of very unique skill or you have other offers and the company really, really wants you, how exactly are you supposed to negotiate? You can play hardball or softball. Hardball works when you have competing offers, and risks your offer being pulled. Alternatively, you can just ask nicely. I've had luck saying something akin to "hey I'm super excited to join BigCo. I'm just curious, is there a…

> risks your offer being pulled

This is almost never a real risk. At worst they will say they can’t budge on price and you need to decide within some deadline (which is also somewhat of a bluff).

Re: Ask HN: Is patio11's salary negotiation guide relevant in today's market?

#170

Post by robotresearcher »

lwhi wrote: post #122
lotsofpulp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless we’re in a situation where violence concludes every interaction, “negotiated agreement” is the presumed conclusion of every interaction. I declined this job offer because I had BATNA. I declined this job offer because I had a better option. I negotiated more PTO because I had a BATNA. I negotiated more PTO because I had a better alternative.

It's an educational concept. Not something you'd use in a sentence like that. I think you're being a pendent.

> I think you're being a pendent.

Oh god help me....

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