Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#161

Post by farhanhubble » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:50 AM UTC

Humphrey wrote: post #11

In Australia toasters are a weird product category. I cannot see any correlation to price and features/quality. The colour and style seems to be the only thing that separately them. I think a toaster that is objectively better than other toasters would be cool, but I've but it would be hard to beat my 10 year old A$20 Kmart toaster. But I suspect it would be a very difficult market to break into.

Also in Australia and in my experience everything here lacks aesthetics, quality and technological innovation, and is still a ripoff.

The Kmart stuff is at least value for money and sometimes is quality too and owning it makes the most sense.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#162

Post by schainks » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:51 AM UTC

I love this idea and the competition is fierce from Chinese companies. Check out Robam’s combi ovens, like this one: https://robamliving.com/collections/steam-oven/products/roba...

This thing can toast, steam, bake, and air fry. It is objectively good at all of those functions, and it is used every day.

The only thing it doesn’t have is the ability to add custom programs, but most of the built in functions can be used for recipes other than what they suggest.

That being said, if I could get the same thing at the same price point, made in USA, I would.

I also would like a properly engineered waffle iron that is made in the USA. The whole waffle iron market today is dogshit compared to the waffle Iron I got my mom in the 90s. It still works, it is easy to use and clean.

Somehow a similar design is no longer available on the open market and the options are all variations on trash.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#163

Post by iancmceachern » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:51 AM UTC

__d wrote: post #134

iancmceachern wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't care about profit, it's not a business, it's a hobby.

Not necessarily? There's nothing to say that you need to make a profit. If all the employees are paid a decent amount, all your other costs are covered, and there's revenue unspent, you could just reduce the prices a bit. The idea that any enterprise needs to make a profit (let alone an endlessly increasing profit) is a destructive fallacy.

A profit is one thing. That's what I'm referring to. This is in fact necessary for a business that hopes to stay in business.

A ever increasing profit is another entirely, and I agree with you. I love the book "small giants, companies that choose to be great instead of big"

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#164

Post by jongjong » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:52 AM UTC

iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy.

I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it should not be compulsory. We're all going to die eventually and this obsession with safety is unhealthy and probably kills more people than it protects (e.g. due to the mental distress they cause and false peace of mind which dumbs down consumers and makes them feel like they don't need to do their own research... Not to mention the social harms caused by the passive 'trust the experts' mindset).

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#165

Post by gffrd » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:53 AM UTC

dheera wrote: post #103

JohnnyHerz wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The high end of the market is a proven niche and the target high-end buyer has demonstrated a willingness to spend freely on premium grade products. The is a reason why LVMH (Moët Hennessy Louis Vuitton) is one of the most successful and valuable companies in the world. I'm not saying it's easy. Any business endeavor, regardless of product market fit, still requires execution. Easier said than done, but m…

> premium grade products. Premium grade != Made in USA Here's a $200+ toaster I was seriously considering buying at one point. It is not made in the USA, and most made-in-USA stuff sucks honestly https://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-Electric-ST1-T-Toaster-ult...

Isn't that a griddle?

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#166

Post by iancmceachern » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:53 AM UTC

kfrzcode wrote: post #114

iancmceachern wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very difficult to make it 100% US made. At best it would be assembled in the US of global parts. Things like the cable, heating elements, plugs, etc. may all be non starters to source here.

It seems to me the opportunity lies up-stream, then? How are those elements non-starters and what would need to change in order for a viable domestic supply for these types of items to support industry?

Many times it's an environmental regulations thing. There are things you can do, manufacture in other countries that you cannot here. It's just like textiles, much of mineral and other heavy metal refining, etc.

If anything, you'd build a plant in Mexico to do that stuff, then put it together here, like most appliance manufacturers do.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#167

Post by ohyes » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:54 AM UTC

Physical objects are literally the worst thing to sell. As a fellow software developer I urge you to stay the hell away from hardware. So many things that can go wrong with a physical device that you can do nothing about.

Also, it’s expensive as hell getting the proper certification for whatever you’re making, even if it works well.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#168

Post by iancmceachern » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:55 AM UTC

jongjong wrote: post #164

iancmceachern wrote: post #83

I do this for a living. Setting up a small operation and doing the physical actions of designing, manufacturing and selling the toasters is the easy, fun and obvious part. I figure what your looking for, advice wise, is what's not obvious. A few things you'll need: -Product liability insurance, this isn't isn't easy or inexpensive to get. You need to have a lot of the below in place to get it. - UL certification (or…

Everything is regulated these days and it usually costs a fortune and helps nobody except incumbents. Makes everything feel rigged and makes me not want to participate in the economy. I wish we could go back to a time when everyone takes their own risks and has to do their own research. Manufacturers could optionally pay some standards company to add some safety label to it to help boost customer confidence but it sh…

I dont know.

They killed hundreds building the Brooklyn Bridge, the hoover dam. So many horror stories of things like that xray shield sizer or lawn darts, or laundry mangles, etc.

That world wasn't better for anyone but the robber barrons.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#169

Post by farhanhubble » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:57 AM UTC

akg_67 wrote: post #120

> as a software engineer with 0 experience building physical things, should I try building this? It is almost impossible to have a fully "US made" toaster. I expect any toaster will have quite a few "overseas made" components. At best, you might make "Assembled in US" toasters. You already received enough info on potential challenges in manufacturing toasters. Instead, a good alternative solution might be to focus on…

This is pretty good advice. Build an accessory: - Sensors / Alarms: a la phone accessories - Cleaning: ??? - Coolness factor: Jibbitz for Crocs

I recently bought a USB cable with a tiny power display on one end and it is the most useful and cool thing I have owned in a while.

Re: Ask HN: Should I try to manufacture toasters?

#170

Post by jacknews » Tue, Jan 16, 2024, 5:58 AM UTC

throwup238 wrote: post #80

jacknews wrote: post #67

OK now I'm starting to think we live in the matrix - I've spend the last 24 hours (unemployed currently, you see) looking at toasters and designs, with the same idea. And because my toaster just broke. The state of toasters seems quite dire. Most are basically the same mechanism internally with different style covers. Some quick learnings/thoughts: - why are they open at the top? Some expensive Japanese toasters are…

> - One thing I find amusing is some reviewers are testing these $100,$200 toasters with regular supermarket chorleywood bread. I mean at least toast some actual bread, not foam. If you didn't make the biga, poolish, or starter, it's not really bread. It’s just processed wheat product.

A $200 toaster is already elitist, especially given that they don't seem to actually toast any better than the cheapest models. So why test with 'poor people's bread'? lol.

Seriously though, I have a bread machine, maybe the cheapest model (lidl equivalent) which I love because of how easy it is to repair, and I make my own bread with little effort for maybe 1/2 the price of supermarket bread, and a world of difference in quality.