161–170 of 172 posts
Elaborate and lengthy interview processes have become normal in a number of industries, along with high rates of rejecting candidates.
The two natural consequences are people apply for more jobs, anticipating the high rate of rejection, and the people doing interviews get tired of how many they have to do.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The honest answer is "so I get money and am not homeless and starving" For a lot, if not most, programmers, there are other ways of making a living. If you are of the mindset that there aren't, I may have some roles for you, but they would not be growth roles and some may feel exploitative, but they are not because there are no shortage of engineers who are happy with such roles. You picked SW development over othe…
I really do appreciate this reply. It's pleasant to get a response from someone who's not nearly as jaded about this as I am that helps me reconsider and be less hyperbolic about things. I was certainly being a bit overly cynical with a lot of what you're replying to, but I think a lot of that is driven by not earnestly believing that most companies are as earnest and caring about this as you seem to be. I can write…
If it is to work, the employer must require it, and must make some (verifiable) commitment that they read it.
> I've been curious about this recently, and have been asking around my network, and I actually don't think anyone I've worked with who's done interviewing for their company has ever even seen a cover letter as part of an interview packet.
If you read my comment, that's been my experience as well. I provide it, and if I get a call, I ask "Did you read the cover letter?"
"Oh, you sent a cover letter?"
Applicants could organize in a guild. The members can rate each other in a friendly environment with constructive feedback. Then, the guild knows who are the best matches for a given job. Employers at first communicate with the guild and only have to evaluate 5-10 candidates. All interviewed candidates pool their knowledge about the employer so the next suggestions from the guild will be even better matches. Medieval…
I've thought on this for a bit and I think it's because the applicant tracking systems (ATS) (Greenhouse, Lever, Breezy, etc.) are built for the employer, not the applicant. This one-sided process is dehumanizing due to a lack of visibility and transparency of the process. Inconsistencies in the process develop when the hiring managers are responsible for too much and just let things slip. I'm of the opinion that inc…
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• 20+ years' experience in BI and Analytics with 8+ experience in data science
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I have been writing software for over 20 years and probably interviewed at two dozen places before moving in with the current employer. Here is what I have learned:
* Don’t be awesome. Employment normalizes to a bell curve. Awesome is a less compatible outlier. If you want to be awesome write software outside of work as a hobby and write about the things you learned.
* Be selective. If you are confident in your skills and experience (realistically, not a Dunning-Kruger fantasy) you can afford to be less desperate about who you will work for. High pay is great but maximize for emotional fulfillment.
* Vanity is for the fashion industry. Software is about automation. Many developers never see the distinction. They try to make things into something they aren’t and are miserable and low performing as a result. Conscientiousness is negatively correlated with intelligence so smart people frequently fail hard at this and cannot see it.
* The qualities that are most well rewarded in employee assessments are helpfulness, honesty, and writing. These take time and deliberate action. It also means maximizing mutual respect but simultaneously don’t shy away from hard truths or disagreements.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
can you explain in human? #notbeingsarcastic but I literally didn't get it.
Sure, do you ever feel like applying for a job is an impersonal and soul-crushing exercise that feels dehumanizing? If you've felt this way then congrats, there's a name for it: alienation. Human's are complex social beings and each individual has a unique set of strengths and talents. However, this complexity is incompatible with how the labor market works. Specifically it's incompatible with how labor is commodifie…
While I think your analogy is more or less accurate, I think any reasonable economist/person could interpret whether hiring standardization is good or bad.
For instance, it’s very easy to interpret a standardization of practices as making the labor market more efficient as most people will know exactly what to expect, more or less, in the process. So they can study or prepare for a job and apply to a multitude of places. Someone could probably write a paper on how standardization of hiring processes has ultimately led to more people hired more, from a more diverse number of places and cultures, than it ever had in the past.
And of course another person could find issues in this for sure.
I end up feeling there are trade-offs with both and certainly processes can be improved. But I think that’s a more micro problem. Like most places don’t in actuality do the exact same hiring process so you can’t really paint with too broad a brush. At least in tech.
But standardization is actually a pretty amazing phenomenon and it can’t be understated how much it equalizes many areas of economies.
On the other hand, I’ll also point out it can disenfranchise those who wouldn’t do well in that standardized process. I’ve felt this in my own life with grad school entry processes. Unless you are the very very best on paper, the top schools ignore you. That’s been utterly dehumanizing and makes me very unhappy. So I really do feel it.
But again, pros and cons. Anyway, thanks for posting this.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, do you ever feel like applying for a job is an impersonal and soul-crushing exercise that feels dehumanizing? If you've felt this way then congrats, there's a name for it: alienation. Human's are complex social beings and each individual has a unique set of strengths and talents. However, this complexity is incompatible with how the labor market works. Specifically it's incompatible with how labor is commodifie…
I’m not going to try to convince you in particular one way or another. I’ve just been reflecting about what you’ve said in general, because I think it’s insightful and it’s gotten me thinking. While I think your analogy is more or less accurate, I think any reasonable economist/person could interpret whether hiring standardization is good or bad. For instance, it’s very easy to interpret a standardization of practice…