Your phone is leveraged so much because it provides companies with deeper tracking capabilities. Most laptops and PCs only geo locate based on their connection points, phones have accelerometers and more accurate location and ID info in them, so many app makers hobble browser-based app iterations to encourage mostly phone use. They also know users are engaged and focused on content more when they are on phones because browsing in multiple tabs is less possible than on desktop PCs. It's ridiculous that we are manipulated in this way, but fandom for certain devices and apps has created powerful companies that dictate how the Internet works, rather than a better world where companies work to provide value and function to consumers first. The customer is no longer right, whatever the company dictates is what is right now, unfortunately so for us.
Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
161–170 of 289 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Before smartphone, if you lose your passport everything goes wrong as well. (and noticing your phone is missing and finding it back is way easier than passport)
Everything? The only thing that goes wrong is being unable to travel internationally, but I think consulates often have a process for issuing emergency documents for even that case?
Try to present a foreign ID without your visa to a US police agent and let me know how it goes.
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#163> i can't log in to any of my banks without my phone.
What country is this? Are you sure they're not just heavily pushing for the use of the apps while still having an alternative? What happens if when you open an account you tell them that you have neither an Android nor Apple phone? There's probably still plenty of options for such phones, and it's hard to think they'd refuse to open an account unless you buy a phone of their choice.
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#164>i can't log in to any of my banks without my phone. Don't know about banks in Europe but in USA, I can log into Bank Of America and JP Morgan Chase without any phone authentication. If I reformat my harddrive or buy a new computer and the bank doesn't recognize the web browser because no previous cookie has been found, the website will generate a one-time code and send it to my email address. I then enter that secur…
I had a Chase account and for some years was able to use email for 2FA. Somewhere around 2019, they changed their requirements and forced SMS for 2FA. Since I don't use a (SIM-ed) phone and since my wife's phone number was already known to them, I had to pull all of my liquid savings out of the account and move it elsewhere. I will never bank with an institution that requires SMS for 2FA.
> Somewhere around 2019, they changed their requirements and forced SMS for 2FA.
I just logged into Chase via desktop web browser and there's not a 2FA requirement.
I also deliberately used a different computer and got the familiar security prompt of "We don't recognize this device": https://imgur.com/a/jKM4MPq
I see that sending the challenge code via email is not in the list but there's an option to call them for it. It's more inconvenient but it looks like neither SMS text nor a mandatory Chase smartphone authenticator app is required.
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's also something to be said for how modern financial capitalism has > squeezed redundancy out of everything. Supply chains are just-in-time, Hence the automotive/chips and other recent shortages...
Are you implying we should have wasted billions manufacturing extra chips just in case there was a shortage and consumers didn't want to wait a year before buying a new car/truck?
My bet is the cost wold be on the hundreds of thousands (yep, globally). But if you really want to push the envelope, you can go with high single digit millions.
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#166Your phone is leveraged so much because it provides companies with deeper tracking capabilities. Most laptops and PCs only geo locate based on their connection points, phones have accelerometers and more accurate location and ID info in them, so many app makers hobble browser-based app iterations to encourage mostly phone use. They also know users are engaged and focused on content more when they are on phones becaus…
Don't forget your phone is much more deeply tied to your identity through your cell company contract and the OS account information is more likely to be closely tied to your identity.
It's also much rarer for someone to have multiple phones and the need to detect that connection.
So there are deeper tracking capabilities and it is easier to connect that tracking data with an official person in order to cross-reference.
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#167[deleted]
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's also something to be said for how modern financial capitalism has > squeezed redundancy out of everything. Supply chains are just-in-time, Hence the automotive/chips and other recent shortages...
Are you implying we should have wasted billions manufacturing extra chips just in case there was a shortage and consumers didn't want to wait a year before buying a new car/truck?
I don't see anyone demanding a planned economy.
I see people recognizing reality - JIT is efficient but fragile in the face of disruption.
Seems to me the sensible thing to do would be to recognize that for what it is and try to strike the right balance in an uncertain world. Even if your concerns are strictly commercial, a couple points margin in good times is unlikely to balance a year of massively screwed up supply chains.
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's also something to be said for how modern financial capitalism has > squeezed redundancy out of everything. Supply chains are just-in-time, Hence the automotive/chips and other recent shortages...
Are you implying we should have wasted billions manufacturing extra chips just in case there was a shortage and consumers didn't want to wait a year before buying a new car/truck?
So, a couple of companies did actually stockpile chips (Toyota was one IIRC), because it was a component whose manufacturing flexability is pretty minimal. It was financially lucrative for them, since they could sell vehicles at a time where no other manufacturers could.
Re: Ask HN: Why did smartphones become a single point of failure?
#170I have a few yubikeys.
I have a folder with recovery codes.
I have a fully encrypted phone.
I can afford a cheap backup phone.
I never felt as secure as I do currently.
Partially thanks to Google and the effort they put in 2fa.
I'm happy to have that than needing to drive to my bank for a paper printout.