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Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#161

Post by Diti »

BeefWellington wrote: post #143

I actually have wondered about this. Given the changes in the way tracking protection has been done, have there been any actual studies/analyses that show Firefox is losing marketshare? If it's all based on ad companies and server-side detection, I'm unclear that you could actually correctly make the claim. If anyone has links I'd be interested in reading; I'm sure there are fingerprinting techniques, but ones that r…

I have the same question as you. I will add that it is possible Chrome’s market share might be partly artificial since Firefox might be using Chrome’s User Agent string so that websites “compatible with Chrome only” remain usable.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#162

Post by nwah1 »

tedivm wrote: post #113
nwah1 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could pivot to compete with the Big Tech conglomerates in general. Provide their own suite of integrated tools, search engines, communication platforms, and so on. But with a privacy-focused and ad-free approach. DuckDuckGo already proved there is an appetite for something like this. They could go further, and remain relevant and viable in the way that DDG is, even if they never again are the most popular browse…

They get most of their money from advertising deals with those major companies (such as by putting google in as the default search engine). Competing against them would likely result in those companies removing the advertising dollars and tanking the business.

But they only get that because they have a market share for now. After they don't, which will be the case soon enough, then they are toast.

But if they can garner 5% market share via this new approach then they save themselves from destruction long term.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#163

Post by selfhoster11 »

alpaca128 wrote: post #153
sockaddr wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently switched to Linux and only installed Firefox. When you force yourself to use it, it's doable. I think only once in the last 6 months did a website not work (my dumb HOA website). Other than that, it's more than sufficient. It crashes sometimes but if that's the price for not having coercive software controlling my life, so be it.

I can't remember Firefox crashing in recent years and that includes times I approached 2000 open tabs. Though after using the same profile for over 5 years now it has trouble remembering the color scheme for whatever reason.

"Soft" crashes where websites simply don't load or function properly in FF, but do in Chrome, are far more common.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#164

Post by Jayakumark »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

Current CEO is a cancer to Mozilla, her main goal seems like to make more money personally before Mozilla goes bankrupt. As long is as she is there - there is no hope

https://itdm.com/mozilla-firefox-usage-down-85-but-why-are-e...

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#165

Post by asoneth »

It seems like a lot of people would have liked to see Mozilla double-down on Firefox to the exclusion of all else.

Personally I would have leaned towards the opposite approach to meet their stated mission of ensuring an open internet. Historically, Firefox has been the means by which Mozilla earned a seat at the table, but I would have liked to see them diversify their portfolio a bit rather than relying entirely on a single browser. If I had been in charge, I would:

Focus on developing Rust, Servo/Gecko, SpiderMonkey. Keep projects like Firefox and Thunderbird as reference implementations but encourage Microsoft, Brave, Opera, and open-source forks to build their own products based on Mozilla technologies. Assemble a broad coalition of companies that base their web browsers, email clients, feature phones, smart TVs, consoles, etc on Mozilla technologies. Explore using licensing and corporate memberships to offset decreases in advertising revenue. The end-goal being to ensure that Mozilla-based browsers capture enough of the market that they have a seat at the table with Apple and Google and then use that leverage to push for web standards that are beneficial to end-users.

Of course, that ship has sailed now that Safari and Firefox are the only browsers with a non-negligible market-share that are not built on top of chromium. Given Firefox's trajectory, Apple is realistically the only player left who can prevent Google from dictating the direction of the web. If Apple decides to throw in the towel or let Google drive, webpages essentially become Chrome-pages.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#166

Post by dpark »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

They should focus on saving Firefox. - Cut out all (or at the very least, most) initiatives that don't serve the goal of promoting Firefox's market share or sustainability going forward - Donate the major money drains that aren't Firefox to the Apache Foundation or another worthy custodian - Fire all inessential staff that don't want to work on Firefox. - Get a CEO/upper management that are in it for the passion, not…

Thanks, Bain and Company.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#167

Post by dpedu »

temp0826 wrote: post #50
nikanj wrote: post #13

Every time I restart Firefox, I get about 8 different prompts for "See what's new!" "Reset your Firefox profile now!" "See our new diversity initiative now!" etc. It feels like opening a Windows Me installation from 2000. I just want to get browsing done.

That's...not the case (and never has been) for me. You only restart it when you get an update (in which case that wouldn't be very often)? Or you did something whacky in about:config? Or maybe a bad extension. Dunno, not normal

I don't often relaunch my apps but I relaunched firefox just now to see what would happen to test this.

Here's what I was greeted with - an ad for pocket: https://i.imgur.com/hYYZYE3.png

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#168

Post by pmoriarty »

paxys wrote: post #154
selfhoster11 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The subtitle of the question was "What would you do if you were in charge of Mozilla? How would you save Firefox?" My answer is an attempt at addressing these two questions. My goal wasn't to make Mozilla more profitable, but to ensure that it's focused on what should be its core mission, rather than the mire of sideshows that they engage in at the moment. Also, I don't care how Mozilla the amorphous blob of a corpor…

As a regular end user why do I care about what Mozilla's mission is? Apple makes shiny devices, Google gives me great free services, and in return I use their (perfectly great) browsers. What is one single reason to use Firefox? As long as these large companies continue to put effort into their browsers (which Microsoft didn't do with IE), users are simply never going to switch, the same way no one is using desktop L…

"What is one single reason to use Firefox?"

Better ad blocking.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#169

Post by DangitBobby »

tayo42 wrote: post #93
chockablocker wrote: post #61

Everybody is moving to mobile and almost nobody uses Firefox on mobile. However, Firefox mobile does support extensions. Is that something that could emphasized? However, Firefox speed on mobile is much slower than Chrome. That should probably be improved upon. For desktop there's not much of a distinguishing factor left. Chrome is good enough. I like Firefox for the privacy, but is that enough of a distinguishing fa…

I use firefox on android. Its frustrating at times. It doesn't integrate well with android stuff like opening up in apps I think. It takes me to the app store or doesnt even open in apps. Google stuff like looking at reviews doesn't work in firefox.

I just assumed this was because Android ignores your default browser setting for special cases. Is this an FF problem or an Android problem?

Re: Ask HN: Why is Firefox losing marketshare and how would you save it?

#170

Post by orangecat »

carapace wrote: post #127
Shared404 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they need to answer the question, why should Firefox exist? If there is no compelling reason, well, there you go. If there is, double down on that make that reason shine. Unfortunately, that reason (browser engine diversity)is compelling to people who understand the situation, but not general consumers - and it's impossible to make general consumers care, unless maybe Firefox went for an edgy "rebel against the man"…

I feel like I understand the situation but I'm doubtful that browser engine diversity is compelling. It seems like duplicate effort. As long as Chromium accepts pull requests, what's the problem with browser monoculture? (In case it's not clear, I'm asking in earnest. I'm not trolling.) - - - - edit: Okay, pull requests alone are not enough, but the objections y'all are raising seem like they could all be answered by…

As long as Chromium accepts pull requests, what's the problem with browser monoculture?

For example, Chromium won't be accepting pull requests to un-break the extension API (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/chrome-users-beware-ma...).

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