It doesn't sound normal to me. I would recommend you contact your National Data Protection Authority and provide them the data you've received and cancel the contract.
Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
161–170 of 506 posts
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#162Sounds like you'll be purchasing a new laptop for that client and bill them for the price of the laptop, and several additional hours on maintaining said laptop.
OP could just use virtual machines.
I use my own equipment for my work and it's all on a VM. Everything work related is done on the VM. If I leave all I have to do is delete the VM.
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#163If you are a freelancer then your contract should allow you to do work for others. In which case, your response to this client has to be "Sorry, but my business laptop potentially has data from other clients on it. I can't let you install this monitoring agent without violating my contractual confidentially agreement with those other clients. I always maintain client confidentiality and will do the same for you. If y…
> If you want to ship me a dedicated laptop for your engagement, I would be happy to install whatever you want on it. I wouldn't offer this. You're still going to need to login to Github/email/wherever with your personal password, manage private keys, and stuff like that. Just say no.
It's a widespread practice that companies provide laptops to contractors to compartmentalize the way they interact with the company's IT. But I'm really quite opposed to it.
At one point I had 3 sets of machines: Two different 14" laptops from two different clients and my own machines. At some point you simply run out of space on your desk and end up constantly either working on screens that are too small (14" really isn't enough to be productive), or plugging laptops in to and out of screens as you're context-switching. Carrying three laptops with you when you're travelling if you anticipate having to work for both clients during that timeframe is also not exactly my definition of great fun. And you end up duplicating a lot of effort around managing that IT, like tweaking settings the way you like them etc.
The argument "we own this laptop, so we can do with it whatever we want, including spying on you" is just not valid. They're either doing things that I'm okay with, in which case I'm okay doing it on my own hardware. Or they're doing things I'm opposed to, in which case I'm opposed to it no matter who owns the hardware.
Also: In many European countries, authorities are clamping down hard on practices whereby companies pass people off as contractors who really are employees. They usually work off of lists of criteria of what makes an employee, and if you fit too many of those criteria while, on paper, passing yourself off as a contractor, then you and your client can be in for a world of pain. One of the criteria that makes you look more like a contractor and less like an employee to the government is providing your own facilities like the computer you work with.
And, last but not least, it's just not a good way of dealing with the planet's resources.
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#164I work as an employee for a small company that wanted to get ISO-whatever certified, but as the only one in the company I had a BYOD agreement (reasonable fee for bringing my own laptop). The people that helped with the certification process came with some virus scanning plus remote access for maintenance plus login protection solution that everyone must install, or else our precious data would be at risk (in terms of precious metal, the data would be lead). Anyway, they got me a new MacBook Pro.
Then they came with the same shit for our phones, but since everyone plainly refused, they found another solution for that. Because there always is one. But this was nipped in the bud at the start. Had people accepted it, there would be no going back, because there never is going back.
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#165You have a third option: Install a VM for working with your client and let their agent run in that.
There are no easy technical solutions to social/political issues. They'll simply make the software detect that it's running in a VM and ban that use. Then you'll work a few hours cheating the software, make your VM look extra realistic. Then the software will get upgraded and your contract gets a clause where you'll pay a fine if they catch you using a VM. Then managers will get the idea they might get complete contr…
Why would anyone ban VMs? What difference does it make?
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#166If you can afford to drop that client, drop them.
If you don’t want to, make the pain to them apparent as a line item. Tell them complying with this is increasing your costs (by the need to protect other clients’ information) and that your rate will increase by .
Make them see the costs of their decisions. We had timesheets instituted for a prior company. I had all my devs add an explicit time for entering timesheet data under a dedicated project code. 15 minutes a week for every dev plus 30 minutes for every lead all billed to one project adds up pretty quickly. "Why are we spending 1% of our time on filling out timesheets?!" "That is an excellent question."
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#167If you are a freelancer then your contract should allow you to do work for others. In which case, your response to this client has to be "Sorry, but my business laptop potentially has data from other clients on it. I can't let you install this monitoring agent without violating my contractual confidentially agreement with those other clients. I always maintain client confidentiality and will do the same for you. If y…
I think this is the correct advice, but keep in mind that procuring the laptop might be a difficult thing for them to do bureaucratically. On the other hand, you renting a laptop and charging them for it, would be pretty simple, presumably your contract covers expenses and all you'd need is an OK from the manager.
I worked for a big company that had various spyware thingies installed on all the company laptops, but they let you use your personal mobile devices for work (including iPad which was pretty nice) -- and wanted you to install their preferred spyware on it. I didn't do that but I expected they would eventually tell me to do it or stop using my personal iPad.
It seems like now that it's technically feasible, big corporate IT managers want their spyware of choice running everywhere. Someday you will have an arm full of Apple Watches, one for each client. You should embrace this future and price it in.
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#168Under EU law that would potentially make you an employee rather then a contractor, as a major part of the destruction is control and time management and the more the Company wants to manage your equipment and time the more the balance swings towards employee status.
This is also part of the reason why BYOD is going nowhere as the second the company wants to audit/control setting it's no longer "Your Own Device".
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do you object outright to spyware, or to the client wanting to run their spyware on your equipment? I don't know for a fact that it is spyware. For now I just think of it as an "hostile agent". I object because a) I don't want frustrations at work. I want to focus on the problems I am there to solve (which are quite interesting), b) I don't want a hostile agent from a company selling data to "targeted marketing" in…
Thanks for responding and writing up more details. I empathise with the frustration of having to follow rules for rules' sake. Another approach you can try is to conform to their requirements on one machine, but do all your actual work on another. In the past I've been faced with similar situations where corporate IT required ne to run a "security agent" if I wanted to bring my own device to their network. I ended up…
> Another approach you can try is to conform to their requirements on one machine, but do all your actual work on another.
That would create a layer of cynicism between me and my work. I don't have that today, and I would rather avoid it.
Re: Ask HN: My client want an agent on my laptop. Is this the new normal?
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
And most peoples home network wont be able to support VLAN's and would your employer be more worried about your ISP provided router - hmm must really replace that huawei router on my network.
Here's a five port 802.1Q VLAN switch for $39.99 + tax: https://www.newegg.com/netgear-gs105e/p/N82E16833122598
I think it would be reasonable to ask for a separate internet connection and router myself. If someone wants me to install opaque software that can do whatever it wants in terms of outbound/inbound packets, then they should be okay paying for it to be completely separate.