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Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

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Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#161

Post by borplk »

airhead969 wrote: post #101
fredsted wrote: post #18

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

Serverless? There are always servers. APIs don't exist in a vacuum or scale magically. If you don't understand how to build what's underneath, then you don't understand what's involved and are at the mercy of vendors or someone else.

Every time someone mentions serverless some smartass feels obligated to mention that "there are servers". Yes we know. It's a specific technical term to refer to category of serverless products like AWS Lambda.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#162

Post by macando »

airhead969 wrote: post #99
fredsted wrote: post #18

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

The biggest problems with microservices are the lack of injecting cross-cutting concerns like security, monitoring, circuit breakers, resource metering, alerting, service dependencies, logs, resource isolation, upgrading on-the-fly, migrations, backups/restores of data, and configuration. These all have to be handled. Docker with k8s is awful when it comes to resource metering. Docker is terrible with security and re…

> but much cleaner, workable, easier, simpler, fewer choices, more usable, more reliable, less stupid, and more standardized.

You can say this about 80% of tech yet here we are.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#163

Post by macando »

It is often said that while not many people bought Velvet Underground records, those who did went out and started a band. For software developers of a certain era, Heroku carries a similar legacy. Every developer who came into contact with Heroku continues to chase some version of that legendary developer experience today. “It absolutely is the Velvet Underground of developer platforms”

We're still waiting for that magical band to appear.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#164

Post by mbStavola »

golergka wrote: post #38

Now I don't need to download, setup and install Postgresql, I can run it with Docker with one command. Why don't do the same for a typical Kubernetes setup with Hasura, API server, Gateway, load balancer, Postgresql, Redis, and a couple of services for logs and monitoring all in one, with all the networking stuff already setup? Just give me an image or template made by someone else, maintained on Github, and ready to…

Isn't this Helm?

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#165

Post by atmosx »

fredsted wrote: post #18

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

Are μServices complex or ppl just don’t like learning new dev patters?

In my relatively short but rich career, I rarely came across a problem that was caused by the tech. Be it k8s or PHP, the problem was ppl using PHP while thinking in terms of Go/Python, or using Kubernetes for stateful monoliths, etc.

We blame the tech because we don’t spent time to understand how it works. So we use the next tool very happily until we come across a new design pattern, context, etc. The circle repeats...

Micro services have very well documented pros and cons. Monoliths too. At this point it’s all about the engineers using the tool at hand properly.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#166

Post by atmosx »

cyberge99 wrote: post #61
fredsted wrote: post #18

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

No sane business is saving money with Heroku. It offers zero mid or back tier flexibility. PaaS and serverless are here to stay.

I had the same experience with AWS lambda. Every app with mid to big scale was 10x more expensive on Lambda compared to Kops managed k8s cluster that was already there.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#167

Post by atmosx »

torvald wrote: post #25

I very much hope to see Hashicorp Nomad getting more traction, as a simpler, yet feature rich solution to probably most use cases in our industry. Pretty interesting to see the adoption of podman and also micro-vms (like fly.io does it), and other Nomad providers that does not nessasarly need to be docker. I know there are great terraform modules out there already, but i wonder if many of Hashicorp's products soon wi…

Simple yes, feature rich compared to k8s? Nope.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#169

Post by techdragon »

atmosx wrote: post #165
fredsted wrote: post #18

As businesses start to realize microservices aren't really worth it due to the complexity and cost it entails, they will start reverting back to hosting monoliths on VMs or services like Heroku/Netlify/Laravel Forge/Beanstalk, and they'll find out they can save a lot of money on compute and man hours by doing this. For more simple workflows, e.g. a single API endpoint, there's serverless and other SaaS services out t…

Are μServices complex or ppl just don’t like learning new dev patters? In my relatively short but rich career, I rarely came across a problem that was caused by the tech. Be it k8s or PHP, the problem was ppl using PHP while thinking in terms of Go/Python, or using Kubernetes for stateful monoliths, etc. We blame the tech because we don’t spent time to understand how it works. So we use the next tool very happily unt…

A micro service architecture can introduce a lot of complexity that depending on the developers and their management, can bring with it a lot of downsides.

However what seems to be missed in a lot of assessments is what I’ve started calling “flying buttress architecture”… you have your central monolithic structure, but rising around it are dozens of smaller supporting elements, not the same as having a seconds task queue system, this is building these components as stand alone parts. These “flying buttresses” can be spun up and down ephemerally in a Kubernetes environment, built as a light weight services or as “run once” jobs and cronjobs scheduled by Kubernetes to use up the spare resources left over in each Kubernetes node around the main monolithic applications.

This makes Kubernetes more useful as a deployment and ops tool when dealing with traditional or existing/legacy software.

Re: Ask HN: What do you think will come after Kubernetes?

#170

Post by Aqueous »

the truth is developers at individual companies should only have to focus on the business logic that individuate those companies. all the other concerns - logging, autoscaling, security, messaging, routing, data storage - are very similar company to company. this leads me to believe that some sort of serverless workflow engine will be the next big thing. problem right now is that the developer story behind lambdas and step functions is horrible and leads to lock in. that will need to be solved. whoever solves it will be very rich indeed.
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