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Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

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Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#161

Post by Matrixik »

Operyl wrote: post #111
luka-birsa wrote: post #110

Large format E-ink displays are currently used primarily in digital signage scenarios (outdoor advertising, passenger information systems,...) - examples are Soofa ( http://www.soofa.co/ ) and Mercury Innovation ( https://www.mercuryinnovation.com.au/digital-bus-stop ). The largest size currently available is 42" and it is used in outdoor and indoor scenarios. Indoor use is for education purposes as a digital whitebo…

What a cool product for meeting rooms! But .. and maybe I'm just not the target audience, there's no way in any universe am I paying 250 bucks for a "do not disturb sign" in my house. That's just way too expensive.

This is "special offer" for home usage (in Europe for 249€ excluding VAT). Also "Comes with a FREE 30-day Joan Home plan trial" that I can't find anywhere on they page how much it cost or what is providing. Does it even work without this plan?

Jean-6 that's the same device plus front light cost 549€ (without VAT) and monthly premium plans.

https://getjoan.com/shop/joan-6-1/

https://getjoan.com/pricing-plans/

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#162

Post by ionwake »

Operyl wrote: post #123
luka-birsa wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. We did get a lot of that with our meeting room solution. We'll be expanding the feature set over the near future, to entice home users to go for something like this even with a price tag of 250.

I can't even imagine what you'd add to make it useful for 250 dollars. Like, look.. If I don't want to be disturbed, I close my door. If I am OK with being disturbed, it is open. That's not going to cost me 250 bucks. If the product were in the 100 bucks range, maybe I'd bite, but it is far from that. This is trying to be pitched to me as a home solution, but with the price tag of what I'd consider for a company inst…

I don’t see what your problem is with the device - it’s an e ink calendar for 250 euros thats cordless, I like it. Even tho it is expensive for me.

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#163

Post by necovek »

Waterfall wrote: post #155
necovek wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, "regression to the mean". Creating something motivates most of the people on this planet, and without going into specifics, I would claim that Gateses and Jobses of this world are not all that rare as far as their abilities are concerned. Situation and, well, luck, are a big part of where life takes people. And having been provided for will discourage most from being as driven to "succeed" (in either financial o…

If they're not that rare, why are they rare? Where did I make a judgement on their success or even use that word? Are you replying to the right person? I doubt you've looked into the theory behind screen addiction (I didn't believe it either). It's the vivid colors and the effects they have on your brain according to neuroscience, plus the manipulation that companies utilize. I've changed my screens to grayscale and…

I think I explained why they are "rare" even if they aren't: circumstances, motivation and drive to succeed in a particular way, a way you classify as "great achievements" (not success, sorry for equating it: I might have missed some nuanced differences there).

It's actually quite interesting that you even consider Gates and Jobs having "great achievements" (other than business success, which is clear), yet condone screen addiction (which their core business were mostly about).

A quick search does not give me any study relating technical properties of screens to addiction-like effects: do you have any pointers? (Other than the common "LED-light-interferes with sleep patterns".)

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#164

Post by Operyl »

ionwake wrote: post #162
Operyl wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't even imagine what you'd add to make it useful for 250 dollars. Like, look.. If I don't want to be disturbed, I close my door. If I am OK with being disturbed, it is open. That's not going to cost me 250 bucks. If the product were in the 100 bucks range, maybe I'd bite, but it is far from that. This is trying to be pitched to me as a home solution, but with the price tag of what I'd consider for a company inst…

I don’t see what your problem is with the device - it’s an e ink calendar for 250 euros thats cordless, I like it. Even tho it is expensive for me.

“ Comments on the Joan Home are welcome - as we're actively thinking of developing this into a more feature rich product in next two months.”

Just giving my feedback. Like I originally said, it’s a cool product, but it’s got a price tag that makes it not a “Home” product like you just said.

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#165

Post by GordonS »

PaulStatezny wrote: post #130
blurbleblurble wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pros: it's super light, works outside, runs off of USB power, feels good on the eyes, has a high resolution and a very decent refresh rate. Convenient contrast buttons on the front and a quick clear button. It's VEGA mountable. But I got a lead weight so it's heavy enough for my adjustable monitor stand. Quirks: Expect ghosting. You'll have to press the "clear" button if the only thing moving on the screen is the mou…

Thank you so much for the detail. Could you expand on the "easier on the eyes" part? What did your eyes feel like at the end of a work day before acquiring this monitor versus now?

Not the GP, but have you ever tried using a laptop outside, especially on a sunny day? It's not terribly pleasant, and you'll probably be squinting the whole time - the reflective surface is particularly troublesome.

I haven't tried a large e-ink display (though I'd love to, especially for coding), but I've been using Kindle e-book readers for years - the difference compared to a glossy, or even matte, Led display is incredible; it's just like reading a printed book. No squinting, no eye-strain, just really pleasant to use.

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#166

Post by GordonS »

amenod wrote: post #98
SequoiaHope wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great example of patents strangling innovation. If anyone has more concrete details on the way this company is holding back this technology I’d love to read details. Thanks!

The irony is that they are probably limiting their profit too. With lower prices the number of applications would skyrocket and they would get much bigger income. The only reason I can think of is that scaling the production would be difficult for some reason?

If large screens with a decent refresh rate were readily available and competitively priced, I imagine they'd be a huge hit with devs - I know I'd love one.

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#167

Post by necovek »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #124
keanzu wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A year ago over the holiday break, I created a large-scale digital “canvas”" posted December 27, 2015 https://www.claybavor.com/blog/a-canvas-made-of-pixels He claims to have invented it prior to Apple, but he didn't publish before they got their patent in.

What makes him think they didn’t invent it earlier? It takes time to publish a patent. People like that are the worst. The sorest losers. I have unfortunately known quite a few of them and they tend to overestimate their abilities by a lot.

There is no such claim on the blog post: instead, a commenter here is making that case.

Anyway, I hate the use of "invent" here: people come up with similar ideas all the time — mostly because the tooling and technology of an era makes a set of problems solvable in a "novel" way that was not possible beforehand. Who gets to patent anything does not necessarily mean they "invented" it.

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#169

Post by namibj »

vanderZwan wrote: post #120
namibj wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe doesn't have software patents. I think non-US space would be enough of a market?

IIRC it gets a bit messy once we start talking about hardware implementations of algorithms. I mean, is an electronics circuit that essentially implements an algorithm still a software patent?

Why does it need to be a hardware implementation?

Re: Ask HN: Has any progress been made on large format E-ink displays?

#170

Post by keanzu »

necovek wrote: post #167
heavenlyblue wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes him think they didn’t invent it earlier? It takes time to publish a patent. People like that are the worst. The sorest losers. I have unfortunately known quite a few of them and they tend to overestimate their abilities by a lot.

There is no such claim on the blog post: instead, a commenter here is making that case. Anyway, I hate the use of "invent" here: people come up with similar ideas all the time — mostly because the tooling and technology of an era makes a set of problems solvable in a "novel" way that was not possible beforehand. Who gets to patent anything does not necessarily mean they "invented" it.

Good point. Clay at no point used the word "invent" - that was entirely me. My rather rudimentary understanding of law means that prior art would invalidate any patent. Had Clay published his design when he claimed to have built the device (Dec 2014) it would seem to have rendered Apple's patent worthless, or nearly so.

A patent is a form of intellectual property protecting an invention. An invention is a unique or novel device, method, composition or process.

If it was a invention worthy of patent in March 2015 - according to Apple - then it was an invention worthy of patent in Dec 2014, when Clay claimed to have devised and built the device.

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