Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 181 posts

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#161

Post by floodyberry- »

jjmorrison wrote: post #79

> Some people advised me not to go there because it would only do harm to my name and brand, but I think I should We need more people who are willing to try and solve problems, not just be critical. Thanks for being willing to have a conversation with them. You're making the right call whether you are able to have an impact or not.

> The Facebook teams are going to give a presentation with some new plans where they want feedback on

This is an "are we off the hook, please say yes" meeting, not a "we don't know how to fix these glaring ethical issues we're profiting from, please help us (for free)" meeting

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#162

Post by smsm42 »

kd5bjo wrote: post #120
iaml wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this use of 'she' from time to time and also curious about motivation here. Also, I'd say even though Zuck is practically face of facebook (heh), company is still genderless and should be referred to as it. In my opinion, of course.

My usual assumption is that the speaker’s first language uses the feminine pronoun for companies. Outside of English, I certainly have the reverse problem of using “it” for all inanimate objects even when they should be “he/she” according to the language’s rules.

In languages with grammatical gender you certainly don't use "it" (neuter gender) for words that have different gender. Interestingly, in both Russian and Spanish "company" has feminine grammatical gender. Also in German (one of the words).

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#163

Post by neilv »

mooneater wrote: post #157

When politicians do focus groups to fine tune their speeches, they are not looking to change their platform, their opinion, or their actions. They are just looking to fine tune for optics. The knowledge they gain from the focus groups just helps them make their message more palatable. I think of fb that way because they are masters of double speak, weasel words, etc. which is the common behaviour of dishonest politic…

Also, not just tuning, but, in some forums, the participation of experts itself can legitimize, and be something the powerful entity (organization or individual) can point to as outreach on their part, and validation.

This can be a mutually-beneficial transaction -- the powerful entity that needs to manage perceptions gets a boost, and the participants get a reputation boost for being seen involved in powerful circles. Witness that the HN poster's business is being promoted, just by being invited. (Which is a potential conflict of interest for the experts, if they're supposed to be representing some truth or public interest, but they probably have to play along for this personal boost.)

One thing that can possibly upset this transaction is if there's a channel for uncontrolled speaking out around it. Say, the format is a televised/streamed roundtable, and an expert with the mic decides to burn bridges with the organization and others like them, while saying things the organization really doesn't want them to say. (The motivation could be altruistic/duty, or calculated career grandstanding.) Or, in a tightly-controlled format, the expert who wants to never be invited to that kind of thing again could attend and then immediately bite the hand that just fed it, by ripping it on Twitter/YouTube/Medium/news/op-eds/etc.

I've seen a lot of experts play-along for their careers (in this kind of thing and analogous transactions elsewhere), and sometimes you see modest amounts of pushback by people who are still playing a political game, but rarely you notice a person who won't get on the slippery slope of game-playing at all yet who manages to have impact there.

(Personally, I'd be a terrible politician even if I wanted to be, and I just want to quietly solve technical and societal problems, while someone else fronts the band.)

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#164

Post by mehrdadn »

ryanlol wrote: post #108
mehrdadn wrote: post #60

Ask them why the exposed moderators who now live in constant fear for their lives in their own countries were not offered serious compensation that could last them a significant chunk of their lifetimes (which would be on the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars). [1] Facebook will most likely respond that their threat assessments didn't warrant it. To which you'd ideally respond by asking them why a reasonable…

I really don’t think this is as credible of a threat as you paint it to be. Terrorists don’t go around killing people for banning them from forums.

Credible or not, you need to compensate for the fact that you've terrified someone for the rest of their lives and made them understandably fearful of making a living.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#165

Post by ryanlol »

mehrdadn wrote: post #164
ryanlol wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t think this is as credible of a threat as you paint it to be. Terrorists don’t go around killing people for banning them from forums.

Credible or not, you need to compensate for the fact that you've terrified someone for the rest of their lives and made them understandably fearful of making a living.

Presumably it’s some reporter and not facebook doing the terrifying.

>made them understandably fearful of making a living

These fb moderators have much less to fear than a factory worker, taxi driver or a convenience store clerk.

The fb mods are vastly more likely to be killed in a traffic accident on their commute than to get targeted by terrorists because they banned someone.

How should such a fundamentally unreasonable fear be compensated? Seems to me that it’d be enough to just offer counseling to distressed employees.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#166

Post by ryanlol »

wbronitsky wrote: post #149
ryanlol wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>First of all, Facebook's inability to keep their moderators' identities private is an issue Agreed, but it’s not an issue because they’re going to get killed by terrorists. I’m objecting to the dishonest framing, not trying to argue that this isn’t an issue. >It seems incredibly arrogant to assume that you know what terrorists will and will not do Your assumptions seem at least as arrogant. >I don't have any experie…

Why are you continuing to hammer away with the Reddit style comments? You might have a good point, but now you are acting like an argumentative ass. This isn't some sort of internet pissing contest with people you don't know and will never meet; that is literally any other online forum that I've seen. This is a forum to discuss issues with people who are interested in them. You are purposefully diluting the conversat…

How come so much of your comment history consists of complaining about “reddit comments”?

I’m not an argumentative ass because my opinion differs from yours, that’s all in your head.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#167

Post by mehrdadn »

ryanlol wrote: post #165
mehrdadn wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credible or not, you need to compensate for the fact that you've terrified someone for the rest of their lives and made them understandably fearful of making a living.

Presumably it’s some reporter and not facebook doing the terrifying. >made them understandably fearful of making a living These fb moderators have much less to fear than a factory worker, taxi driver or a convenience store clerk. The fb mods are vastly more likely to be killed in a traffic accident on their commute than to get targeted by terrorists because they banned someone. How should such a fundamentally unreaso…

Whether or not a threat is credible is a different thing from whether or not the fear resulting from it is reasonable.

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#168

Post by ryanlol »

mehrdadn wrote: post #167
ryanlol wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably it’s some reporter and not facebook doing the terrifying. >made them understandably fearful of making a living These fb moderators have much less to fear than a factory worker, taxi driver or a convenience store clerk. The fb mods are vastly more likely to be killed in a traffic accident on their commute than to get targeted by terrorists because they banned someone. How should such a fundamentally unreaso…

Whether or not a threat is credible is a different thing from whether or not the fear resulting from it is reasonable.

I know. I just don’t see anyone spending much time worrying about random store clerks vastly more reasonable fear of getting robbed.

This is kinda like being scared of a plane crashing on top of you, sure it’s possible and a scary thought, but ...

Re: Ask HN: Invited by Facebook for privacy roundtable. What questions should I ask?

#169

Post by mehrdadn »

ryanlol wrote: post #168
mehrdadn wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not a threat is credible is a different thing from whether or not the fear resulting from it is reasonable.

I know. I just don’t see anyone spending much time worrying about random store clerks vastly more reasonable fear of getting robbed. This is kinda like being scared of a plane crashing on top of you, sure it’s possible and a scary thought, but ...

No it's not. Your example is not reasonable. The fear of a plane landing on top of you is pretty generic, and the risks are well-known and well-understood to who work closer to planes. The one here is quite reasonable, entirely a result of Facebook screwing up, and not something that's supposed to come with the job the way it did. I outlined these for you and completeness's sake, but they should have been fairly obvious, so I'm not going to entertain more unreasonable comparisons.
Post reply on HN