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Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

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Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#161

Post by johnchristopher »

hobofan wrote: post #160
johnchristopher wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an anecdote: I sometime drop to friends and acquaintances that salary is one of the last taboo in our modern western society but it's a really strong one. Either it ends there with a joke comment or it sparks a conversation about an individual's worth in society and among friends.

I'm wondering if that's a "previous generation" thing that's slowly going away, or if I'm just living in a bubble. I know (or have known and forgotten) the salary of most people in my extended peer group (25-30 year olds mostly). If the topic we are talking about is jobs, or a new job someone got, the person usually either flat out says it, or someone in the group will ask with little hesitation.

How much do you and your extended peer group earn ? My initial reaction is that if you earning well above average and your peers as well then it's way easier than sharing that info with people earning way less. Or if you earn above the minimum wage but not by much you won't share with that SV hotshot.

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#162

Post by johnchristopher »

ohaideredevs wrote: post #95
johnchristopher wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an anecdote: I sometime drop to friends and acquaintances that salary is one of the last taboo in our modern western society but it's a really strong one. Either it ends there with a joke comment or it sparks a conversation about an individual's worth in society and among friends.

It just goes to show that people DO associate their worth with their salary. I talk about my salary with my friends because we realize that it's all kind of a crapshoot and/or a matter of choosing whether or not to sell your soul.

That's a point I usually bring in the conversation: for all our talk about equality, sharing resources, etc. we still tend to associate with people who earn in the same bracket.

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#163

Post by raztogt21 »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #112
balabaster wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor can you say it without quantifying the structure of your earnings... Where are you based, city/country? What kind of clients do you entertain? Also what industry/niche does your consulting empire cover? I assume you're an incorporated consultant and the rate of $3K per day is gross revenue and not net income(?) Certainly this is achievable, but people need to understand exact comparables so they're not comparing…

Ok, replying to you and next up line. I do consulting, the kind I do is irrelevant because there are others with high bill rates too (I know of some iOS devs that make $2,500/day). I have friends who are Java devs making $250/hr. They're not dummies but they aren't exactly Linus Torvalds or Chris Lattner either. Since you asked, I advise companies on how to implement certain development practices, things like DevOps,…

Thanks for taking the time to write this.

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#164

Post by hobofan »

johnchristopher wrote: post #161
hobofan wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering if that's a "previous generation" thing that's slowly going away, or if I'm just living in a bubble. I know (or have known and forgotten) the salary of most people in my extended peer group (25-30 year olds mostly). If the topic we are talking about is jobs, or a new job someone got, the person usually either flat out says it, or someone in the group will ask with little hesitation.

How much do you and your extended peer group earn ? My initial reaction is that if you earning well above average and your peers as well then it's way easier than sharing that info with people earning way less. Or if you earn above the minimum wage but not by much you won't share with that SV hotshot.

Anything from 2k€ - 20k€/month, so pretty varied. This is from very varied backgrounds in different industries (software engineering over caregiver to business consulting), different education levels, and also got to know them in very different ways (high school; job; friend of a friend). All in Germany, which I think is about as secretive about salaries as the US traditionally, but also spread out across all parts of the country.

This is why I thought it might be a generational thing, as that's the only common denominator I was able to make out.

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#165

Post by ryandrake »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #91
stakhanov wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary-porn seems to be a category that generally gets a lot of attention on HN. Personally, I feel a bit ambivalent about it. Obviously it's useful to be able to compare & benchmark, because one should go into any decision-making process being well armed with information. But on the other hand: The information exchanged is never enough to truly contextualize the numbers appropriately, and it's a potential source of…

Calling it "salary-porn" gives away the rest of your comment. I could have written it myself based upon the many conversations I've had with people here, and elsewhere, about salary. For some reason many people are hostile to the idea that, at a minimum, you can make more money doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same company. Perhaps this shields them from the horror of the money they are most certainly lea…

It’s called salary-porn because like actual porn, its attention-grabbing, often tantalizingly exaggerated and phony. Everyone on HN knows someone who knows someone who makes $500K at Facebook, and therefore that’s a totally normal salary that anyone can achieve. Last week it was $450K. I guess next week, $3K a day is going to be the standard rate for developers here.

To a developer who makes, say, $120K (which at least in the Bay Area is around median based on Salary.com and Glassdoor), that kind of claim is an emotionally-charged fantasy: provocative, maybe a little humiliating, but ultimately empty and unattainable. Again, fits the “porn” theme pretty well.

I’m not saying you’re a phony. Maybe you do make an enormous amount of money. If so, congrats, you are an outlier among outliers. I don’t see how talking about it adds any more value than talking about how you’re any other kind of fortunate outlier, like a hotel heir or lottery winner.

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#166

Post by Radle »

hobofan wrote: post #160
johnchristopher wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an anecdote: I sometime drop to friends and acquaintances that salary is one of the last taboo in our modern western society but it's a really strong one. Either it ends there with a joke comment or it sparks a conversation about an individual's worth in society and among friends.

I'm wondering if that's a "previous generation" thing that's slowly going away, or if I'm just living in a bubble. I know (or have known and forgotten) the salary of most people in my extended peer group (25-30 year olds mostly). If the topic we are talking about is jobs, or a new job someone got, the person usually either flat out says it, or someone in the group will ask with little hesitation.

Even here in Germany where salary talks are serious taboos, the younger generation is definitely more open about it.

I had people repeatedly asking me for my salary after accepting a new job. I think things have seriously changed.

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#167

Post by hadrien01 »

closeparen wrote: post #99
hadrien01 wrote: post #42

This comment from nightcracker about GDPR privacy consent: You enter a coffee shop. Before you can do anything, the owner takes a photo of you, and grabs your hand to take your finger print. He quickly writes down the date, time and what clothes you are wearing. He gives you a smile as he starts his speech. "Before we continue, we at Coffee City want you to know we deeply value your privacy. We need your permission t…

Pretty sure my coffee shop has a security camera, and most customers pay by card.

Pretty sure the coffee shop doesn't livestream the camera feed to 150 "partners".

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#168

Post by ryanmarsh »

ryandrake wrote: post #165
ryanmarsh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it "salary-porn" gives away the rest of your comment. I could have written it myself based upon the many conversations I've had with people here, and elsewhere, about salary. For some reason many people are hostile to the idea that, at a minimum, you can make more money doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same company. Perhaps this shields them from the horror of the money they are most certainly lea…

It’s called salary-porn because like actual porn, its attention-grabbing, often tantalizingly exaggerated and phony. Everyone on HN knows someone who knows someone who makes $500K at Facebook, and therefore that’s a totally normal salary that anyone can achieve. Last week it was $450K. I guess next week, $3K a day is going to be the standard rate for developers here. To a developer who makes, say, $120K (which at lea…

Your comment really saddens me. There’s so much more you could have. There’s no reason why what I make has to be an outlier. I’m so so so not special. Many people have come on HN to say exactly what I’ve said and have achieved outsized results. Jesus, is patio11 really that incredible of a guy? I mean, he’s really nice and pretty smart but dude he made his start with a bingo card creator.

Our mindset is our greatest limitation.

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#169

Post by xenophonf »

I can't remember if it was a comment or a post that linked to a really interesting article? blog post? rant? on how difficult actually modelling neurons is. It went into a lot about the genetics and epigenetics of the neuron, but I can't seem to recall the author or find the article. I wish I'd bookmarked it. :/

Re: Ask HN: What Hacker News comments have you bookmarked?

#170

Post by ryandrake »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #168
ryandrake wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s called salary-porn because like actual porn, its attention-grabbing, often tantalizingly exaggerated and phony. Everyone on HN knows someone who knows someone who makes $500K at Facebook, and therefore that’s a totally normal salary that anyone can achieve. Last week it was $450K. I guess next week, $3K a day is going to be the standard rate for developers here. To a developer who makes, say, $120K (which at lea…

Your comment really saddens me. There’s so much more you could have. There’s no reason why what I make has to be an outlier. I’m so so so not special. Many people have come on HN to say exactly what I’ve said and have achieved outsized results. Jesus, is patio11 really that incredible of a guy? I mean, he’s really nice and pretty smart but dude he made his start with a bingo card creator . Our mindset is our greatest…

> Our mindset is our greatest limitation.

That, and the nature of distributions. Salaries are not exactly normal, but there’s still a long tail on the right, with only enough room for a few. Some people find it fun to read/dream about being over on that tail, just like some people aspirationally watch Keeping Up With The Kardashians.

If outsized results were achievable by merely applying hard work, adopting certain principles or following articulable steps, more of us would be able to show outsized results. Even for athletes, more training and better mindset means better performance but not necessarily outsized performance. There are only so many Olympians and pro ball players to go around and the farther right you go on the tail, the more of a factor random chance is.

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