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Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

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Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#161

Post by tracker1 »

arethuza wrote: post #15
smilesnd wrote: post #13

Personally how I got over my social anxiety and awkwardness was by powering through. Realizing the things I thought I handled horrible didn't even blimp on peoples radar during or social interaction. Just being me was more then enough, and to stop trying to be the person people liked (not in a popular way, but in a don't want to make people uncomfortable long story). I would suggest you find one person and go out of…

"Personally how I got over my social anxiety and awkwardness was by powering through." I think these are areas that definitely get a lot easier with age.

It may be difficult, but it's often the right approach. Difficult things are often the right thing when it comes to social interaction and dealing with other people. Nobody likes it, and unless you're a Narcissist or similar, it is never completely easy. It tends to take work and practice.

For me, the path out was making myself speak publicly.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#162

Post by deathanatos »

roenxi wrote: post #157
deathanatos wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that this comment is good advice, but that this comment is downvoted, but the comment about being a backstabbing, lying, traitorous arse survives… We have a long way to go as a species. A drink with coworkers is probably okay. "lose your inhibitions", however… no. Remain in control of your faculties, please. I've had to help more than one coworker who has drunk too much, and it is obnoxious, and it does lower my…

I don't want to be judgmental, and say this with the mildest of intentions (grandparent is just trying to make a contribution, and it would be good advice for some people), but as you point out - "lose your inhibitions" is worse advice than "be a traitorous arse". To someone who doesn't know how to do something, 'alter your mental state and hope that works' is useless advice because holding a drink doesn't magically…

That's an interesting way to look at it, and you're not wrong. The way I was considering it when I wrote the post was more along a consideration of the Golden Rule; that is, "drinking" is really only a danger to yourself (at least, to some degree; it is possible, I suppose, that you make decisions while under the influence that do effect others), whereas the other comment I was referring to is pretty encouraging active harm to other individuals. (Although, I suppose if you expect that that's the playing field, one could argue that it isn't a violation of the Golden Rule? That is, if it is "par for the course"? Nonetheless, it seems like a good way to ensure limited collective success, which is perhaps my real objection to it.)

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#163

Post by sjg007 »

sjg007 wrote: post #121

1. Find a therapist who specializes in adult autism and cbt. 2. One thing that will help is to develop your small talk. Look people in the eye, ask how they are and the default option, “any and for the weekend?” If it’s wednesday or later. If it’s monday or tuesday and the first time you interact, ask how was your weekend? Be prepared to give answers yourself that are more then 1 word and allow some basic questioning…

Another thing you can do is practice this with family and friends, your local barista and everywhere else. Think of it as being this opportunity to have a unique relationship with every person you meet.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#165

Post by [deleted] »

mediocrejoker wrote: post #119
naeemtee wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a…

Maybe you could write more than three words about your experience and what positive suggestions you have for OP (ie. not "here's what bad advice" and instead "here is some good advice") Was soccer really the thing that helped you?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#166

Post by johnsonjo »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #54
sopooneo wrote: post #7

I absolutely sympathise and struggled with this myself to some extent. One thing that has worked for me is one-by-one adopting particular tactics that I see socially successful people using. And I mean I consciously note and incorporate them individually into my interactions. Eventually they get almost automatic. That may sound crazy and that it would look contrived. But I have never been called on it, no one has eve…

But I've found "no" sets business people off like startled chickens. Maybe because they have a more holistic view of the purpose that you’re all there for. As a developer, your job isn’t to say yes or no. It’s to understand the problem and solve it. If no solution is available within the constraints laid out, your job is not to deliver the bad news like a robot. It’s to understand the priority of the constraints and…

These comments kind of reminded me of the comedy sketch, “The Expert” [1]. When nobody else will say no to an idea your meeting might end up sounding like that. I agree though that you should let people know the constraints and alternatives if you want to help forge a path ahead for their ideas.

[1]: https://youtu.be/BKorP55Aqvg

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#167

Post by thrower123 »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #54
sopooneo wrote: post #7

I absolutely sympathise and struggled with this myself to some extent. One thing that has worked for me is one-by-one adopting particular tactics that I see socially successful people using. And I mean I consciously note and incorporate them individually into my interactions. Eventually they get almost automatic. That may sound crazy and that it would look contrived. But I have never been called on it, no one has eve…

But I've found "no" sets business people off like startled chickens. Maybe because they have a more holistic view of the purpose that you’re all there for. As a developer, your job isn’t to say yes or no. It’s to understand the problem and solve it. If no solution is available within the constraints laid out, your job is not to deliver the bad news like a robot. It’s to understand the priority of the constraints and…

Frequently they are also fishing, and will be thrown onto a different track if you say no. Code can be made to do most anything, but just because you can doesn't mean it's worth doing. Frequently I find that people bend over and overpromise shit that isn't built, isn't scoped, and is of questionable use, because prospective customers mention something in passing. Then you are on the hook for that ill-conceived feature forever.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#168

Post by NicoJuicy »

You don't need office talk for small talk, try to interact on events and show an effort ( you can leave early fyi).

The thing you want to address is, when they give you a 2 word spec, talk about the issue before implementing it. The chance that your interpretation of a 2 word spec == their interpretation = 0.

And yes, just talk about it upfront.

The flow and what's possible, for hard things, try to get a middle ground, so a 4 week implementation becomes a 3 week implementation.

A 20 minute talk that can reduce 15% of labor is a win-win.

I've reduced a lot of unnecessary labor because of small talk :P

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#169

Post by thisisit »

I was in your place and slowly getting better where people actually say that they like interacting and talking with me. What really helped?

1. Meditation and specific one at that called - metta meditation. Most of the time issues lies with the fact that we as introverts feel unfulfilled and think something is wrong with us.

But, there is nothing wrong with us. This meditation helps with that and makes you realize that you are fine as they way you are.

2. Tiny habits:

One of the biggest problem for me was that I would wake up one day and barrel ahead trying to be another person. But the problem is you cannot change in a day. So, you try and try and eventually give up.

Then I read about BJ Fogg's research: https://www.tinyhabits.com/

And I took another route to thins. I wake up every day and take one thing and only one thing I want to do.

Let's say "small talk". Then I think of a person I can try this on. So, I set an intention to "small talk" once I meet this person. And because I am aware of this intention I tend to see how they react. Most of the time it's pleasant surprise which makes me feel good and helps reinforce the habit.

3. The mandatory book:

https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Myth-Science-Personal-Magnet...

It has lots of techniques. So, take it slow. It can take sometime before you see the changes.

Re: Ask HN: Resources for introverted devs to learn workplace politics?

#170

Post by twoquestions »

jeremybeckham wrote: post #45

My recommendation is to go to your team lead/manager and tell them what you wrote in the first two paragraphs. Ask them for help in developing those skills. My experience has been that learning office politics is more about having a trusted mentor that is good at doing this. You are looking for a mentor that would bring you to meetings and into conversations where you can observe what they do, what the other people d…

That sounds like a wonderful way to get backstabbed, and suddenly be the one responsible for all the company's failures before you're fired.
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