Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#161

Post by Tharkun » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

whamlastxmas wrote: post #151

Tharkun wrote: post #139

The unfairness of it all. Years ago I was employee #1 at a small company, which grew quite large in terms of user base and profit. VC was attracted. More profit was made. New C-level executives were attracted. The founders and C-levels made very profitable deals for themselves. The engineers got nothing. No bonus, no stock options, nada. I left the company a lot more cynical than I joined it.

Did you have any equity in the company? If you didn't, why do you feel entitled to share in profits and success?

I didn't have any equity. The only thing I invested was several years of my life and a fair amount of blood,sweat&tears. The other early days engineers and myself worked our asses of, going beyond the call of duty as they say. I don't think I (or my former coworkers) felt entitled as such. We certainly did feel like we were underappreciated when piles of cash were being handed out to everyone but us.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#162

Post by kwillets » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 8:05 PM UTC

laurentl wrote: post #160

kwillets wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a group thing where they buy credibility with industry insiders. IPO's are all about lending credibility (that's why investment banks take a huge chunk), and the do-nothing hires are apparently related to that.

Yes, signaling plays a big part. At some point you’re basically buying a gold-plated LinkedIn profile for the VCs and the press releases and the keynotes in industry summits, and that feeds on itself - each new prestigious VP position is another layer of gilt on the CV. In other words, they are hired to look good - any productive outcome is a mere coincidence.

The IPO process is very tricky too; they want large holders to keep their stock as long as possible either to avoid tanking it or to keep the float small so it will bid up quickly. Naturally all these people can get out before the employee lockup ends though.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#163

Post by r3vo » Tue, Sep 18, 2018, 8:58 PM UTC

coffeemug wrote: post #54

mikekchar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Successful companies also attract gold diggers. When the company is small, unless everybody is going above and beyond the call of duty, it's likely going to fail. As the company gets bigger, there is more and more latitude for failure. At some point it is successful enough that it can survive having people whose only goal is to direct a large amount of money into their pockets. This can lead to really weird decisions…

> If you happen to be the hapless person who is innocently trying to make the company successful and who is not paying attention to where the money "should" flow, it can be quite painful for you. It can be a painful, frustrating, degrading, and ultimately extremely valuable lesson. It's especially difficult if you're naive because everyone around you is talking about metrics and OKRs, you agree on OKRs with people, a…

Your post reminds me of this excellent post on metagames.

https://www.epsilontheory.com/too-clever-by-half/

The naive employee you mention who strives towards OKR completion wins the game, but loses the metagame of corporate ladder climbing.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#164

Post by whamlastxmas » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 5:54 PM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #161

whamlastxmas wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have any equity in the company? If you didn't, why do you feel entitled to share in profits and success?

I didn't have any equity. The only thing I invested was several years of my life and a fair amount of blood,sweat&tears. The other early days engineers and myself worked our asses of, going beyond the call of duty as they say. I don't think I (or my former coworkers) felt entitled as such. We certainly did feel like we were underappreciated when piles of cash were being handed out to everyone but us.

The harsh truth is that your expectations were wrong. I could be a lot nicer about this but it's the simple fact. You thought you deserved more because you busted your ass and took a risk, but the reality is that it's just sort of silly to work at startups and bust your ass without some legally binding agreement to potentially get a reward for your above-and-beyond work.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#165

Post by whamlastxmas » Wed, Sep 19, 2018, 8:18 PM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #161

whamlastxmas wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you have any equity in the company? If you didn't, why do you feel entitled to share in profits and success?

I didn't have any equity. The only thing I invested was several years of my life and a fair amount of blood,sweat&tears. The other early days engineers and myself worked our asses of, going beyond the call of duty as they say. I don't think I (or my former coworkers) felt entitled as such. We certainly did feel like we were underappreciated when piles of cash were being handed out to everyone but us.

Ugh, sorry, I was in a bad mood. Sorry for my comment. Your feelings are valid, I was just being a dick.

Re: Ask HN: What is the dark side of working at a successful startup?

#166

Post by JBlue42 » Fri, Sep 21, 2018, 4:22 AM UTC

rdco wrote: post #140

nodesocket wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the great insight, but I also have to admit it is incredibly disheartening and bleak. I truly think silicon valley is not a good place for the human psyche as a whole. Quite honestly it breeds negativity, envy, imposter syndrome, which all turn into depression. It's cliche, but some of the happiest people are farmers, construction workers, or people who physically work on tangible things. Also, I feel peop…

> some of the happiest people are farmers Farmers and soldiers have notoriously high suicide rates. One explanation is that it's caused by a lack of control. From that perspective, it's certainly frustrating to watch your company succumb to inefficiencies (e.g. politics), but as a white collar worker, it's much easier to solve than for farmers. White collar worker can move laterally to a new job or upward, but farmer…

For some reason, your post reminded me of this bookmark I go back to:

https://www.brainpickings.org/2013/05/09/daniel-pink-drive-r...

"In Drive, Pink goes on to illustrate why the traditional carrots-and-sticks paradigm of extrinsic reward and punishment doesn’t work, pointing instead to his trifecta of intrinsic motivators: Autonomy, or the desire to be self-directed; Mastery, or the itch to keep improving at something that’s important to us; and Purpose, the sense that what we do produces something transcendent or serves something meaningful beyond than ourselves."