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Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

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Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#161

Post by Noumenon72 »

sfuller wrote: post #59

Having done both startup/agency work and working as a "cog in a big machine", hands down a "cog in a big machine" is far better for someone early in their career, looking to build good engineering habits. 1) Most startup code is hot garbage. 2) High caliber engineering practices rub off on you. - Surrounding yourself with talent and writing software is the best way to be good at what you do. Being in a small startup,…

Maybe the market's kind of hot, I've been getting recruited on LinkedIn almost since I started (non-BigTech) employment two years ago. We had a contractor fresh out of bootcamp who got recruiting messages too and left after seven months. I never considered responding because I considered it spam, but it looks like there are some good canned responses you can send: https://www.themuse.com/advice/5-email-templates-to-respond-....

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#162

Post by kcorbitt »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #106
kcorbitt wrote: post #46

I was faced with a similar choice two years ago and went with Google. I really didn't enjoy my time there; turns out big companies really aren't my cup of tea. I also learned much less than I would have somewhere else because Google's stack is quite proprietary and I simply wasn't motivated in that environment. I quit after only 8 months. So it may surprise you that I'd recommend taking the Google offer! In my mind,…

Did you have to return any signing bonuses, relocation, etc in full?

I had to return a prorated portion of my signing bonus and relocation expenses. The larger financial hit was that none of my RSUs had vested, so I walked away from those entirely (my understanding is that Google has since changed their policy and RSUs now begin vesting immediately).

To be clear, I don't recommend that anyone join Google with the intention of leaving in less than a year. Even though I wasn't particularly enjoying myself, I was planning on staying for ~18 months to pay back Google's investment in my training. In the end though I changed my mind and left earlier because an opportunity came up that was simply too good to refuse.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#163

Post by [deleted] »

clubm8 wrote: post #156
gnomeduck wrote: post #7

Advice from someone who had a similar choice and went the startup route: choose the Google option. It will not only open doors for you for all your future jobs, but you can invest the money now and create a nice start for yourself. There will never be any shortage of interesting startups to work for in the future.

> There will never be any shortage of interesting startups to work for in the future. You forgot to factor in the blatant age discrimination in most startups. OP could build a nice nest egg at Google, but have a severe lack of free time + not be working on "interesting" work, and come out of it financially stable but unable to compete with fresh out of college grads with no lives, willing to work 24/7 and who have al…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#164

Post by vanilla_nut »

clubm8 wrote: post #156
gnomeduck wrote: post #7

Advice from someone who had a similar choice and went the startup route: choose the Google option. It will not only open doors for you for all your future jobs, but you can invest the money now and create a nice start for yourself. There will never be any shortage of interesting startups to work for in the future.

> There will never be any shortage of interesting startups to work for in the future. You forgot to factor in the blatant age discrimination in most startups. OP could build a nice nest egg at Google, but have a severe lack of free time + not be working on "interesting" work, and come out of it financially stable but unable to compete with fresh out of college grads with no lives, willing to work 24/7 and who have al…

I understand the risks you're talking about here, but it's not like OP will start working at Google and suddenly his technical skills will atrophy. It is still a very competitive place to get into and a place where great work takes place. Even if OP doesn't get extremely interesting projects, a more established company is often better in terms of mentorship. Not to mention the fact that financial stability as well as the job security of working at such a large company have their own benefits.

I think OP could work at Google and have a promising career start, while taking on the risk of working on slightly-less-interesting projects.

At the same time, OP could work at this startup and make a bucketload of money through equity while working on fascinating projects. But the work could also be boring API stitching. Or the hours could be really long, and OP might have no outside life.

They're both good options. But back to the point I was originally trying to make: it's not like OP is going to work at Google and then never get hired by a startup again. In fact, working at Google is such a positive signal on a resume that it might actually make it easier to work at startups in the future.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#165

Post by johnwh »

I chose a startup over a better Big Company offer (although no where near the difference in pay), and deeply regret it. Understandably the grass is always greener on the other side, etc., however here are a few things to consider:

1. Really stupid things can happen, even with established startups. We lost our 401k and may possibly lose our healthcare (although that is looking more promising) when our HR/Ops manager went on extended leave and their replacement is still struggling with the basics. This isn't due to a lack of funds, but rather the new person being disorganized and ignoring emails from Zenefits. When I joined we were a well oiled machine, but we were dependent on one person, and things fell apart quite quickly after they took leave.

2. People are still people. No matter how much say you have, your startup will make a bad hire, most likely many. This happens at all companies, but startups particularly struggle with finding decent candidates at early to mid stages. The difference is, that with a startup having a bad employee can make work significantly worse without any proper recourse. Even if you hire great people, you may find that the startup you joined is culturally different 6 months to a year later. Things change fast, and for many things go from great to awful within the span of 3 months.

3. When it comes to bad hires and politics, the most common complaint at large companies is that the only people who get promoted are those that are friends with the manager, etc. That is an issue no doubt, but at startups everyone is expected to be friends, and the role between boss and friend is even more blurred. We have a legitimately bad employee (caught her twice rebasing her PRs after reviews, so changes could not be tracked between commits, in which she responded to review comments by adding carriage returns so github showed that the code changed and therefore hid the comments), but there is no proper path to reporting this, and bringing up these issues are extremely taboo on my team, especially because she is now close friends with our boss (they meetup during vacations). Sure, this happens at large companies, but I cannot move teams or even refer to a standard to we can stop this from happening. Honestly, it hurts the most because the whole point of a startup is that you care about the product and team, so when this happens it just becomes a low paid job since you lose the culture of trust.

There is a lot of good that comes with startups, but I will be honest, unless you are starting your own, or are young and are looking to be best friends/party with your coworkers and make your job a lifestyle, it usually is not worth it.

edit I wanted to add one more point: The startup I was at previously gave me 1% of shares. Things were not working out well, and our CEO sold for an acquisition hire in which he made ~$1.5 million, and I would have made ~$36k after vesting for 3 more years. Literally, with the acquisition hire signing bonus and new salary, I would have made less than I do now from just switching jobs than if I stayed.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#166

Post by bb88 »

liquidise wrote: post #85
bb88 wrote: post #58

1. 6% of zero is zero. 2. 4 years is a lot of time to spend at a company for a high probability of making 6% of zero. 3. If you're an employee at a startup, you're in the wrong job. You're much better off being a founder. 4. Equity is a way to be paid less and to be fired in the first year if you haven't vested anything. 5. Who are you going to sell your equity shares to? It's not necessarily a free market in the sta…

This is a surprisingly jaded response that flies in the face of my experiences at multiple startups. I concur with assuming equity will be 0. Dilution is real and almost all startups fold. Counting on equity is unwise and dangerous. As for the rest of your commentary, I’d say startups are great because you get a better ability to shape your experience. I’ve now been employee: 21, 7, and 1 at respective startups. Whil…

I made a long post, whined a bunch and deleted it. But I do agree with you sentiment about equity.

I do believe if VC's really believed that they were making the world a better place, they would insist that employees shared in the wealth that was being created.

On one hand, the Valley is an amazing economic engine, on the other, it's an amazing place of inequality where people making $70k can't afford to live there. If that's the future, the Valley needs to do better, rather than insisting that people need to live in houses smaller than shipping containers.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#167

Post by marssaxman »

humbledrone wrote: post #154
manquer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends on kind of person OP is, Personally I never want to work at any large corporation especially Google, the benefits do not outweigh the drawbacks for me. Apart from what others mentioned in the thread In the startup choice the biggest benefit not going the Google for me is that I choose to work in a domain(by choosing the startup) where I am passionate about, slim chance of it happening in a large org…

IMO one of the best things about working for Google is that it's so easy to move between teams to e.g. find the domain you want to work in. While it's true that you may not have many options for your first team (unless you are already a domain expert, in which case you may get funneled into your domain), if you are performing well for your current team, it is extremely easy to move around. I say this a a Googler who…

So easy relative to what, I wonder? I was slotted into a team which was neither fun nor anything I am into, and never managed to transfer. They said my manager wouldn't be able to block me from transferring, but he did so anyway, and I ended up leaving Google. There was nothing about the process which felt like it was any easier or less political than what I've seen at other megacorporations.

Re: Ask HN: How do I choose between a job offer from Google and a promising startup?

#170

Post by mrep »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #112
burlesona wrote: post #110

Google. In a few years you’ll have a million in the bank and then you can afford to roll the dice on any startup that catches your interest, if you still want to.

Does Google really pay that well?

https://www.teamblind.com/article/Google-Engineer---Total-Co...
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