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Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

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Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#161

Post by ryandrake »

Eilene wrote: post #138
ryandrake wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gray hair helps. I’ve got enough experience at this point where I can be productive without going into “production frenzy.” Lots of the younger folks don’t get that yet and think it’s all about how much code you write or how long you’re at your desk. I like to think of it as the difference between doing work vs “producing evidence of having done work.” There is a lot of pressure to do the latter I think, especially f…

In your experience, is there more substance use (drugs, assuming alcohol is used sometimes to excess by all age groups) among the junior folks, because of the difference in the pressure they feel?

That would require more speculation than I’m willing to engage in. I can comment on the various pressures to perform that apply to older and younger tech folks, and why I personally don’t feel the need to go the Adderall route (essentially I don’t think the results of merely more output are worth it). To put the two together I’d encourage you to find people currently going down that route for their perspective. Given the discussion here it shouldn’t be hard to find a few! Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#162

Post by nathan_long »

Eilene wrote: post #126
nathan_long wrote: post #34

Glad you're looking into this. As a counterpoint: I've been a developer 10 years. I've worked at a few established businesses, two startups (one U.S. based and one German), and two consultancies. I worked in-person in Charlotte, N.C. and remotely since then. I've never worked in Silicon Valley. One employer had a "play hard" culture, encouraging alcohol (ab)use outside of work. I didn't stay there long. Perhaps I've…

a problem for me, as a reporter, is the lack of statistical evidence of any kind for this. It's very difficult to get an accurate portrayal of the problem based on surveys that would require self-reports. That's why forums like these are helpful in informing my reporting.

Yep, I understand you can't easily get stats on this. I just didn't want you to hear exclusively from one side.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#163

Post by jpzisme »

I have a daily shot of espresso at the office at 8am. It tastes good and helps me focus. Sometimes there's a happy hour on Friday. I don't drink, but some of my coworkers do in moderation.

I'm sure there is a drug/party/binge drinking culture in some companies in the Bay, but it's the mildest I've seen in any industry/geography so far.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#164

Post by typetehcodez »

I drink coffee. Up to three cups a day when working over 12 hours. Beyond that? No. I have an occasional glass of red wine at night, but have little desire to ever try any other drug. I am curious about the effects of micro-dosing LSD for creative productivity, but would only ever consider that in a medical research setting - I am more curious about the results of such a study. I don't know anyone who used/uses illegal drugs in my profession, and I am in my 4th job as a developer. Be careful about the comments here; not everyone uses drugs and you have no idea about sample size and representation in these comments. I am sorry about your loss, and wish you the best in your research and hope it can help others in the future.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#165

Post by sometimelydat »

While working at a local Datacenter in Austin Texas(2016), I was introduced to and regularly used these performance enhancing drugs:

------------ Armodafinil Adderall 4-ACO-DMT ------------

Sleep is the foe that austinites try to vanquish; psychedelic interconnectivity its modus operandi. Community building is the endeavor of this weird little city of Austin, the future its dream.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#166

Post by Bartweiss »

Eilene wrote: post #51
purerandomness wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing a manager go this path, and seeing his productivity plummet, I'm pretty sure the productivity boost is merely perceived. There was a story on HN with people trying to microdose on LSD, and the alleged benefits - long story short, when they asked peers about their performance, they noticed they're more distracted and not more productive, while those doing the microdosing thought they're on a super productive tr…

Is this manager still going this route? And do you think any of the microdosing (or other drug use) goes beyond the 10x productivity stuff? Could it be some of the tedium of programming work? Does it relieve any of that? I'm trying to determine too if all of the drug use in tech is really aimed at enhancing performance/productivity or if it's also used to stave off depression, anxiety or just that feeling so many of…

> I'm trying to determine too if all of the drug use in tech is really aimed at enhancing performance/productivity or if it's also used to stave off depression, anxiety or just that feeling so many of us have and have had that we're not doing anything particularly meaningful in our professional work.

This is a fascinating possibility, and apparently there's at least one researcher working on exactly that. [1][2]

On a much lesser level, I know this is a common reason for the divide between focus tips ("listen to white noise, silence, or wordless music to avoid distraction") and people's self-report techniques ("listening to intense EDM helps me code"). The goal isn't to avoid distraction, it's to break through tedium and help code longer without losing focus. I'd hardly be surprised if more intense things like LSD microdosing had similar effects.

Anecdotally, I know at least one very skilled programmer who insisted she couldn't work without marijuana. She didn't think THC did anything to raise her core abilities, but rather said that it stopped her from getting impatient or bored and let her work more methodically for longer.

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-problem-with-...

[2] http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/21507740.2014.990...

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#167

Post by tudorw »

copper_think wrote: post #82
whalesalad wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure about that (never seen it myself)... but cocaine is a LOT more prevalent than people realize. There is a funny meme I saw recently that rings true: Two biggest shocks of adult life. 1. everyone does cocaine 2. cheese is fucking expensive

Man, I really wouldn't. My understanding is that of the people who present to the emergency department with chest pain, something like a third of them have been using cocaine. It causes Real Problems. https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drug-relate...

Manchego on the other hand, worth every penny and a great source of butyrate, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/304454916_The_neuro...

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#168

Post by Eilene »

Blahah wrote: post #154
geofft wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I... doubt that's true. I imagine there are people who think that this help will help them become top scientists (and maybe we should have a talk about the pressure to succeed etc.). But I suspect that a lot of the actual top scientists are plain good at what they do, and they neither need nor want the effects of drugs in their work. (Which is very different from recreational use, of course, or recreational use turni…

I was at Cambridge for 4 years and I can safely say that none of the professors in my department were using stimulants other than coffee. I can clock someone who is up across a crowded room. None of them were ever up. A large number of the ambitious PhD students and postdocs were though, and a very large proportion of the undergraduates. I think it's probably a generational thing. Students sell to students. Nobody is…

how can you tell if someone is up? Just from years of using stimulants yourself or are there obvious, telltale signs? I missed a boatload of them with Peter.

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#169

Post by brootstrap »

did the startup grind for a couple years getting out our MVP and wearing tons of hats. smoked weed on the daily. Still at the same company a few years later. Still chillin on the weeds (only on the weekends now) myself. A lot of my co-workers are pretty straight-edge, vegans, no drinking etc. We are in the midwest though so there is no west-coast fancy cars fast life cocaine shit going on. Its more about buying a 30 pack of cheap busch lite and gettin drunk in some corn fields

Re: Ask HN: I'm writing a book about white-collar drug use, including tech sector

#170

Post by nullbites »

pnathan wrote: post #127

A fair bit of marijuana in the Seattle tech scene. No particularly visible ill effects from what I can tell. I have the notion hallucinogens have been used, but no one admits current use (to me). I would expect the more far out tech scene to be more into hallucinogens than anything else. Cocaine, meth, & opioid use - no idea. Personally, I'd guess opioids are uncommon in tech: foggy heads don't fly. No one I know is…

Yeah, same in government contracting with the coffee and alcohol. Older guys all just drink (obscene amounts of) coffee and us young guys go out and drink and smoke.

One thing I have seen quite a bit of in the Gov't contracting world is the smoking of all kinds of tobacco. I'm a pipe smoker but we have plenty of guys who enjoy regular and simi-regular cigar smoking. We also have a more cigarette smokers then I was used to seeing in the purely commercial sector. I don't know why this is. These are just some observations I have made.

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