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Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#151
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize in advance for how long this got :-/ At first I was signed up on freelancer.com as well and did several ~$150 contracts where I could bid/get picked/do the work/get paid practically the same day, which helped my psyche. I also did a relatively large project on elance.com but unfortunately didn't get paid for it due to disputes over milestones (the customer kept adding to the to do list), which is what led…

Wow, this is an awesome answer! A big thank you for taking time sharing your experience. There are many good points and I will definitely go over this again and again as I work on oDesk. Regarding my situation with the getting initial works, I think I will do what you said, like doing the tests and adding stuff to profile. May I ask that for the first few contracts, did you apply for them or did the clients discovere…

I think I applied for a couple of gigs at first and tended to get them (maybe 50/50 odds) and also tended to just apply for ones that I felt a calling towards, so I rarely had more than one application outstanding. After that, what usually happened is work became ongoing, so they came up with more things to do, or mentioned another project they wanted and I continued work under the same contract. That may have been a mistake in hindsight because I didn’t show much versatility, but, ongoing employment like that says something too and I wish more contracting sites reflected that.

I don't recall trying to comfort them about my inexperience on oDesk. I mostly just focussed on similar work I had done in the past, even if it was just a concept I was interested in that they were trying. Most of this stuff is so esoteric to non-technical folks that authenticity goes a long way. To alleviate their fears, you could ask for less up front. On contracts that are 40 or so hours or less, I ask for 50%, but beyond that I tend to ask for 25%. Then I usually pitch about 3-5 milestones. Never settle for 0% upfront, because it takes several hours/days to get up to speed with a project before you begin. You can always give refunds too, so don’t stress too much about going over if you have the meter running on an hourly contract. It’s probably better to have an accurate accounting of your time and renegotiate after the next payment. This has never come up for me though, because I tend to be a lot harder on myself than the client is. Just be aware of it and add in some contingency time, maybe 10-20% of total when you are bidding. So bid 100 hours instead of 80, 50 instead of 40, etc, and don’t worry about round numbers because they sound suspicious anyway. You really can’t go wrong with an honest approach, and if you still aren’t getting contracts, perhaps message some of the people who declined and just ask if there’s something you could do better to land one next time. Short of that, I’ve been thinking of pasting a beard on my profile picture.

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#152
post #145
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Zach, advice to you from an industry elder. From your comments, I would put you in your late 30s, young enough to be scrappy but experienced enough to be on a founding team. The only reason for doing is to gain industry domain experience. (Software doesnt count.) The domain can suggest startup possibilities. Consulting income is a trap, unless you make massive savings. Dont look back at what might have been. I wo…

So as a college student now and graduating in two years what should I be focusing on currently and into graduation?

1.- network, know people 2.- don't focus on school or what you'll learn there, as Mark Twain wisely said: "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" 3.- focus on working for yourself, not "getting a job".

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A qualified developer with basic social skills and hygiene habits should have no fear of a full time job's lack of control. Yes, we go through minor hiccups in the hiring market every decade or so, but even in those, all of my friends who were actually good had no issues if they wanted to move jobs. Get good at development, if that's your thing. It will help you whether you do a startup or work for someone else. (It'…

Which is precisely why this entire "risk" thing is being blown out of proportion. At any time if you fail you can go get a job with ease.

I'm doing that - took a job straight out for 1.5 years, did a startup - didnt work out. Now, going back into workforce to save up some more $$ (for the next one :) )

Re: Ask HN: How do you earn your money?

#154
1)Get a job where you can learn as much as possible, where you're not even close to being one of the smartest people in the room, and that gives you the freedom to experiment and learn. Find a boss that knows this won't be your last stop, but is willing to put some time and training into you anyway. - There's a lot more of these types of bosses than you think. 2) Start up a business on the side. Even if you are just trading time for money - IE a niche software dev company rather than a cool new app - it's still worth it for the intrinsic value. Starting a business forces you to deal with clients, overhead, time management, contractors, and lots of other aspects of work. You can also give yourself any title you want. I suggest stay away from "CEO" or "CoFounder" because it will make you look like just another wantrepreneur. Try "Director of ...." It's really important to give yourself an awesome title that people will believe and give you credibility for. 3) Know that your business WILL fail. It's going to happen. Don't avoid it, embrace it. Obviously don't willingly fail, try to keep it going as long as possible, but just know in the back of your mind that you will fail. 4) Know you have experience with a company, a group of people that you can use as references, as well as a former fancy title and experience running a business and managing people. You just skipped 10 years of climbing the corporate ladder. The next time you apply for jobs, or as a high level director in a startup, you'll be younger and just as qualified than your contemporaries.

Try it out - let me know how it goes...it worked for me, and a lot of other successful people.

Note, I'm not a developer, I'm a marketer

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