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Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

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Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it never really occurs to us to use them, just like it never occurs to you to not use them. This doesn't really make sense, either. How do you not consider the right tool for the job? Do you just use whatever you learned to code and never really bothered to consider that you might be more or less productive with different tools? LSPs don't always offer a productivity increase in all contexts—they seem to be mostly…

My great-grandmother never used a mixer when making cakes or bread, long after mixers were available, and she was able to pump out treats and full meals without batting an eye, the best anyone ever had. I don't have a problem with my "productivity", whatever that means. I'm not trying to write code faster, my own experience is that writing code faster leads to shitter code. I'm not hindered by my tools, and most of m…

Yes, very zen. How does your pairing partner feel about this?

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#152
I've never used an IDE to write code, though I have tested a few out on the recommendation of others. For 30+ years, I've only used these plain-text editors in this order: Vi, Vim, NeoVim, Emacs, Kakoune, and now Helix (I used Vim for most of that time).

I guess I keep everything in my head and use reference materials when I forget something.

IDEs bother me. I enjoy working in the terminal and have always found using a mouse while writing code annoying. I also dislike having tabs, buttons, menus, drop-downs, pop-ups, etc., in my way while I think and write code.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#154
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I agree that code should be organized logically, but I wonder if you could expand on what you mean. Do you drill down into finer and finer directories of detail, code units, classes and functions? I work with someone that navigates the tree structure of all our directories every time they need to look for something. It is painfully slow to watch and if you ask me, they produce fairly spaghetti architecture.…

> I work with someone that navigates the tree structure of all our directories every time they need to look for something Counter example: I’m working with LSP dragging codebase where basic code lint takes 45s. My colleague takes a break after each change so that their code navigation starts working again. Inefficient people are inefficient. Not using LSPs isn’t guarantee of efficiency just as using LSP isn’t one. Di…

Needs more RAM?

I've been doing work on a Raspberry Pi project, which got large enough that it took forever to get code nav back after an edit.

I switched to using VSCODE remote from a beefier machine with 32GB of memory (and an admittedly better processor). Editing response is now under 10 seconds. Sweetness and light! And even the compiles (which still take place on the Pi) run about 6x faster.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#155

This question reminds me of the first time I met a blind programmer. I asked him how he managed to code, and he replied with something that stayed with me: a good programmer should organize software in such a way that every piece of code has a clear and logical place. The organization should be so intuitive that anyone could build a mental model of the structure and navigate it easily, even without seeing it. It felt…

I greatly enjoyed this comment of yours daltonpinto. Thank you.

I do not rejoice with code bases where every file has no logic or code in it but there are hundreds of methods and files with everything spread out. I have no idea how those projects fit together because the actual logic is spread out.

For my personal side project hobby work it's all in one file.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#156
Spicy take: I write minimal but easy enough code to follow that there’s no “flow” needed. And by extension, no need for anything except a text editor.

Easy to say, takes a lot of practice, focus, and knowing common concepts across all languages to execute on.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#157
post #130
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autocomplete is more for discoverability than saving on typed characters, letting you rely less on documentation and more on the actual interface you're interacting with

I’m curious as how it lets you rely less on documentation. If you don’t know what you’re looking for then how will you know you chose the right thing? The classic example of getting this wrong is probably C# developers using IEnumerable when they should’ve used IQueryable.

> The classic example of getting this wrong is probably C# developers using IEnumerable when they should’ve used IQueryable.

Or literally any function from the standard library in C++, which will likely have undefined behaviour if you look at it wrong and didn't read the docs.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#158
I've set up LSP a couple of times, but not been wowed yet. Didn't feel like it added much value. It's on my TODO to do in again, though.

For your question about go to definition: not like it takes much time to open a file and search. Yes, of course objectively it takes longer, but I don't feel like my coding speed is limited by my typing speed. (a mouse is not involved when opening a new file)

I mean to set up LSP again because it has to be better. But in the past, when it's broken or I code on a different machine I've found that I don't miss it, or even necessarily notice it being gone.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#159
Random thoughts on this topic:

- Years ago, I didn't use anything. It was just me, Emacs and a few packages. I surely knew about IDE features, but didn't bother. But I did get frustrated to have to look up things every time when I forget something. Autocompletion is an improvement and seeing docs fly up on a function helps a lot. But it's one part of the picture where the computer aids me...

- case in point: rg or ag are fantastic tools for searching through codebases. I use go-to-definition too if I can. However, I usually can find pointed references to fuzzy ideas about things much faster than co-workers who don't use rg, because regexing a codebase is much simpler than tediously running through files I am not familiar with to get a quick answer.

- autocomplete is useful when I don't know the language and helps to spell correctly. It does take me away from learning a language, but I don't do a lot of coding (hope that changes in 2025!)

- when I write Python, I don't really need tools as much. I pull up docs more. I have pylsp installed and sometimes when it is off or it can't boot for some reason, I just grumble and continue to do things without it. The same with bash. I am good with python but stink with bash, but still don't use LSP at all with bash.

- I still have some odd fears that since I don't use dedicated IDEs for most things, I will get disrespected when it is relevant for career progression. This is not without merit - sometimes computer-assisted tools can help with certain tasks much faster than others. We shouldn't measure based on individual tasks, but if you are getting constantly stuck on trying to finish something but the bottleneck is your chosen text editor/environment to convey ideas, it can look negatively.

- please, no copilot! I already feel like I lean on search engines too much to answer my questions. I know I become better when I enrich myself with general knowledge on a topic. It doesn't answer everything (thankfully search engines are there for that and don't want the quality of sites fall by the wayside because of copilot), but I imagine I would not be so swift on the types of problems I solve if it weren't for deliberate documentation reads and discovery.

- I am improving my understanding of Lisps (common and emacs). I feel like there is a different experience working in these. The typical IDE tools feel different given that all these tools can be used to interact with a running environment instead of using something that just primarily analyzes source code. I would probably fall back to my old habits when I am comfortable, but it is fascinating at least to me how the tools fit together differently than in "normal" languages.

Re: Ask HN: Programmers who don't use autocomplete/LSP, how do you do it?

#160
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And you’ll learn that the speed of typing, even long method names, is not the limiting factor of your productivity. This is the fundamental truth that those pushing AI as a replacement for programmers miss (intentionally or not).

> This is the fundamental truth that those pushing AI as a replacement for programmers miss (intentionally or not). I think this blend of comment shows a good dose of ignorance discussing the role of AI as a replacement for programmers. It's not like PMs are suddenly seeing engineers vanish from software projects. It's that AI makes developers so much more productive that you only need a subset of them to meet your w…

So what Ai models are usable for producing a navigatable structure?

I wasnt aware of any that could

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