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Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

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Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#151

Post by dzikimarian »

asveikau wrote: post #133
robust-cactus wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting fact - valve no longer works this way because it didn't work.

I've always been curious about claims that such an approach inevitably doesn't work. I feel like my intuition tells me it could with the right people and variation on the concept. But it's probably difficult. Even the best managers I've seen usually have blind spots on how the team is running.

Tons of very proficient people are simply not interested in responsibility that comes with flat structure.

Because of that such company will either stay small (probably leaving ambitious people with unfulfilled ambitions) or change along the way, because you simply will not find enough people to make it grow.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#152

Post by twblalock »

gamblor956 wrote: post #141
twblalock wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like quite a lot of guilds and unions, the actor's guild started out by defending workers rights against a restrictive system (in that case, the Hollywood studio system) but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else. We really, really don't want that in tech. Tech is one of the few segments of the economy where skill trumps credenti…

but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else. This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work. SAG does not prohibit non-union actors in SAG-covered productions. In fact, appearing in a SAG-covered production is how one qualifies for membership into SAG. SAG set…

> This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work.

I have been a member of several unions and I know what I'm talking about.

You can disagree if you want, but I am speaking from real life experience.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#153

Post by throwaway5959 »

caeril wrote: post #79
_448 wrote: post #46

I created a discord server here for everyone to connect: https://discord.gg/TyQfcSZk Hope this helps.

[flagged]

Who hurt you? I've never worked at FAANG or made over 300k/year, but I can't fault people for making bank if companies are willing to pay for it and they're not breaking the law.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#154

Post by asveikau »

dzikimarian wrote: post #151
asveikau wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been curious about claims that such an approach inevitably doesn't work. I feel like my intuition tells me it could with the right people and variation on the concept. But it's probably difficult. Even the best managers I've seen usually have blind spots on how the team is running.

Tons of very proficient people are simply not interested in responsibility that comes with flat structure. Because of that such company will either stay small (probably leaving ambitious people with unfulfilled ambitions) or change along the way, because you simply will not find enough people to make it grow.

Many ambitious people thrive in a flat environment, though. That's one reason some people like startups.

It's been a few years since I pondered this, but I used to spend a lot of time thinking on this subject. I think for it to be successful you need a lot of the type of person that prefers to work in such an environment, and to make effort to keep it that way. That might mean staying small staffed, but I'm not totally convinced it even needs that.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#155

Post by [deleted] »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#156

Post by hankish »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

What a brilliant idea! Me and a bunch of other folks have been working for the last 18 months to create just such a professional collective, with the goal of expanding it massively. Lots of laid off workers are joining and everything is cooperatively-managed, self-organizing and transparent.

It's a combination of a professional network, a full service consultancy, a skills academy, and a startup incubator. We've got 105 members at the moment and are growing every day.

We've got more info here if you're interested >> https://wiki.quorum.one/blog/what-is-quorum1

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#157

Post by danuker »

marcusverus wrote: post #101
throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #14

It just occurred to me that so many people were laid off, we could start the world's largest software co-op (and arguably one of the largest tech orgs, period). We could build software products that every industry needs, that every worker owns a part of and can vote on org-wide decisions. Literally everyone you need was laid off... Tech people, business people, marketing, sales, etc. We just need a forum and some vol…

It's hard to imagine such an organization working out over the long term. The incentives are all wonky! The more you contribute, the more you sacrifice by joining a coop. The less you contribute, the more you gain. I for one can't think of a less attractive idea than taking a product idea that I love and turning ownership and creative control over to a group of strangers. And that's probably why these things are so r…

A co-op doesn't mean everyone must share profits equally.

How about an internal market where people bid for tickets?

There are crypto projects facilitating governance of organizations. They could help both enforce and simplify keeping records. Example: https://aragon.org/

Edit: Earlier I suggested hiring people for internal-money, but that might be tax evasion. Don't do it without consulting lawyers in your country.

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#159

Post by jamiepenney »

twblalock wrote: post #97
whatshisface wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A co-op can mean a lot of things, but in particular it means an employee-owned business. For all of the reasons not to get behind the idea of a company without a billionaire at the top, the Hobbesian faith in the monarch could be the worst one. The functional difference between a co-op and a normal business could be as small as having a board that is informed (because the shareholders are employees and naturally very…

Ok, show me a single example of this model working for a software business that makes a profit. Just one. I honestly can't find any.

I'm one of the managing directors for a 3-person software development co-operative. We each made around double the market rate for developers in our country last year, with a small amount left over in the company at the end of the year to invest in new staff and a small side-business the company owns.

Loomio[1] is a successful product-based co-operative, and was spun out of another successful co-operative called Enspiral[2]. Enspiral got up to over 200 co-owners before they started splitting off to other companies.

This is just looking at New Zealand, which is small and doesn't have a big co-operative sector. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples around the world.

1. https://www.loomio.com/about/ 2. https://www.enspiral.com/

Re: Ask HN: Where are laid off employees gathering?

#160

Post by gamblor956 »

twblalock wrote: post #152
gamblor956 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but has evolved into a gatekeeping and rent-seeking organization that primarily enriches its senior members and hurts everyone else. This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work. SAG does not prohibit non-union actors in SAG-covered productions. In fact, appearing in a SAG-covered production is how one qualifies for membership into SAG. SAG set…

> This is not simply false, this is the typical FUD spread by people who have no idea how guilds or unions actually work. I have been a member of several unions and I know what I'm talking about. You can disagree if you want, but I am speaking from real life experience.

I am speaking from a position of legal expertise about how Hollywood unions function.

I have been part of the legal counsel to several Hollywood guilds/unions, and have participated in the production of multiple Hollywood and non-Hollywood productions. Like you, I was also a member of a non-Hollywood union (while I was in the public sector), though that experience is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

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