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Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

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Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#151

Post by mimimi31 »

jtbayly wrote: post #116
nyuszika7h wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. It's not that simple. You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents who install it on their children's phones without consent. (Or heck, maybe even abusive spouses.) If parents are that concerned, even banning their children from "innoc…

> You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents What exactly is abusive about me wanting to know if my 6 year old is watching porn? Are parents that signed up for Youtube Kids abusive, too? Is Google abusive for filtering the videos? And are all those who shared articles about how porn was showing up in YTKids ab…

I think there's a big qualitative difference between having a Youtube Kids profile and filtering access to certain content versus completely negating a child's digital privacy like this. It actually reminds me of that one Black Mirror episode[1].

Ethically, I agree with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child[2], which states in Article 16:

>No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy [...].

>The child has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkangel_(Black_Mirror)

[2] https://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/crc.aspx

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#152

Post by camhart »

detaro wrote: post #83
camhart wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose I'm addicted to porn and that it's damaging my marriage. I want to be free of it. But when I pick my phone up, I'm tempted to view it. I know I want to be free of it. I don't want my life to suffer any more as a result of it. But I need help, because in those weaker moments my will power isn't sufficient. This is where making it difficult to bypass comes in. Keep in mind difficult do bypass doesn't equal "can…

You don't seem to be engaging with the parents point about your messaging at all with this comment. FWIW, this all reads like an excellent demonstration why this category of app isn't trusted.

I'm explaining how the app can be both difficult to bypass and voluntarily used.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#153

Post by Pigalowda »

nightfly wrote: post #136
Pigalowda wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it makes sense if the goal is to never approve such an app. A rejection and subsequent tinkering might allow a derivative to make it through. Perhaps they believe in leaving such projects in purgatory and the developer unable to troubleshoot.

That's not a fair strategy. Say if this developer has published several reasonable apps before this, that strategy would forever cut them off from updating those as well.

I’m not trying to be abrasive here but I do believe it’s fair collateral damage if your hypothetical scenario is true. If he lost update access to his other assets by trying to push this risk onto the app store, I’m ok with it.

The app he made in our example is privacy degrading with control and abuse likely being its best feature. He took his shot.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#154

Post by chris_wot »

nyuszika7h wrote: post #28
umvi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware. So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. I have a good married friend who uses parental control software on himself to reduce the temptation to look at porn. It basically just gives his wife access to his browsing history. Sure, he could bypass it a number of ways if he was really determined, but it's more about just raising th…

> So don't buy/install it. But don't take away that choice from other people. It's not that simple. You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents who install it on their children's phones without consent. (Or heck, maybe even abusive spouses.) If parents are that concerned, even banning their children from "innoc…

I'm not at all convinced this is an extremely rare use case. There are hundreds of thousands of Christian pastors, priests and ministers of religion who would probably find this very useful. There are a lot of Christians who would also find this useful, for themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#155

Post by jtbayly »

mimimi31 wrote: post #151
jtbayly wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are purposefully bringing up an extremely rare use case to detract from the fact that 99% of users of this software are going to be abusive parents What exactly is abusive about me wanting to know if my 6 year old is watching porn? Are parents that signed up for Youtube Kids abusive, too? Is Google abusive for filtering the videos? And are all those who shared articles about how porn was showing up in YTKids ab…

I think there's a big qualitative difference between having a Youtube Kids profile and filtering access to certain content versus completely negating a child's digital privacy like this. It actually reminds me of that one Black Mirror episode[1]. Ethically, I agree with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child[2], which states in Article 16: >No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with…

So, to be clear, the government can keep tabs on what my child watches. Google can keep track of exactly what my child watches. Twitter can filter based on its morals, what my child can see and share, as well as monitor everything they read and watch and say.

But I, as the parent that is actually responsible for the child (and may face lawsuits if I don't) am not allowed to do any of that.

Got it.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#156

Post by chris_wot »

tptacek wrote: post #68
camhart wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether the device your child uses is yours, or theirs, that's up to you as the parent to decide. > I certainly wouldn't have tolerated that sort of behavior from my parents when I was a kid myself. Kids will be kids. I would have been the same way. I learned to pick a lock on the computer desk as a kid in order to play computer games after I was supposed to be in bed. The issues is the negative impact of tech is onl…

You keep talking about kids, but your own advertising talks about spouses using this. That's considerably less benign.

Voluntarily using it. Not sure what is not benign about this.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#157

Post by chris_wot »

tptacek wrote: post #63
camhart wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why do they allow competitors to do it? They should be facing the same issues.

What's your hypothesis about why they're not letting you do something? Do they just not like you? That seems unlikely.

And yet, they don't explain what the issues are. A bit hard for him to tell what the issue is if they don't say what the issues are.

Sure seems they don't like him to me.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#158

Post by jgod »

agentdrtran wrote: post #108
bborud wrote: post #37

This is the main reason why I am not interested in being an app developer. Your business is in the hands of someone who can cut you off and get away with not even giving you the time of day. Not worth the risk. (That being said: I'm not sure I would have approved an app like yours since it is designed to invade privacy)

The business in this case is from a religious extremist and this kind of software is very frequently used without the user's consent.

That's very libelous of you.

You may like you and your young children being able to stream unlimited hardcore pornography to their iPads, but that doesn't mean other people have to like and allow it for themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#159

Post by indymike »

bijant wrote: post #13

I‘m sorry for You. I can see how you‘d think that your software is providing society a service. And yet from my perspective your software is malware. I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications of your software in all markets where the app store is offered. Aside from the legal risk to You, there is also a reputational risk to Apple, a company trying to rebrand itself by focussing on privacy (CSAM nonwi…

> And yet from my perspective your software is malware.

At first I thought exactly this. This app is disclosing what it does, in the open. The product is very direct and clear what it does, and how it does it. One of the hallmarks of malware is that is is doing things without the user knowing, or in many cases wanting. The only way I would install this is if I wanted it to do exactly what it does.

> Do you have safeguards that can 100% rule out the use of your App as spyware ?

I'm not sure that this is really what is needed here. Any app with telemetry, especially screenshots could be used as spyware. In this case, the app is not hidden, is installed by the user, and it is very clear what it does. There's nothing clandestine or spy-ish about it. It is literally marketed saying this app will take and send screenshots to a person you pick.

> I don’t think you have considered the legal ramifications

This is probably where the biggest potential problems really are: truple is collecting evidence that likely would be used against users in court - be it civil court where it could be used to prove you were doing something bad at 10am (you were chatting instead of working) last week or criminal court where the screenshot might be used as direct evidence of a crime.

Re: Ask HN: Apple revoked developer account for 2.5 years and counting

#160

Post by noduerme »

nerdjon wrote: post #47

You said other apps are fine, but are those other apps advertising themselves as parental controls or as stalking software? I took a look at your website https://truple.io and... there is very little mention of this being for parents. TBH looking at the website is... deeply concerning for anyone that would legitimately want to use this product. Especially on a spouse?!? I am willing to bet part of the issue is the ta…

I feel so gross after looking at that site I think I need to watch some porn.
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